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  • NeonSpotlight
    NeonSpotlight closed this thread because:
    Archived discussion
    21:26, May 5, 2014

    Everytime I choose Syndra, most of my premade friends are moaning, how bad she is in late game.  Ok, I know that she can stun enemy team with ballz. Expect of stun thing, can she do anything in late game, teamfight, or whatever? Gimme arguments to shut down my premades _^_

    (sry for my English)

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    • she has average-bad team fight potential and she cant spltpush. no moar argument needed, she is bad late game,

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    • With that splitpush... Ok, she is not the best turrets destroyer, but it is problem of most AP carries. I mean, she has 3 AoE which is great for destroying minions. So yeah. Maybe not backdooring turrets, but for beating minions..

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    • She has a similar damage output to Lux and Orianna, if not better. The issue arrises because Orianna and Lux have better ultimates late game. Syndra basically becomes Veigar late game - except without the guaranteed kill (lots of CC, but only single-target damage). The same can be said about a lot of other casters though. Malzahar, LeBlanc, etc. Although I think most people would say they fall off too. 

      I don't think there is an argument to shut down your premades... she does fall off. However(!) it all comes down to whether you need massive area damage from your mid-caster. My premade plays Zyra support a lot - and she more than covers area damage in team fights. If you have a good Fiddle jungle, etc. Your *team* needs to fill certain rolls. Area damage doesn't have to fall on the mid. 

      If you hadn't said "sry for my English" I wouldn't have noticed. ;)

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    • Her late game is her major strength. Don't know where people are getting that she's bad from.

      Basically she starts whittling down the front line with Qs before instagibbing the carry with her ult. Low cooldown mages are there for late game, where they can put continuous DPS onto the enemy team. Her teamfighting CC's pretty awesome too with her AoE pushback and AoE stun (which is granted hard to land, but if they're grouped up in a teamfight you're going to hit somebody).

      Syndra is bad for her early game when she doesn't have the mana to support more than a few barrages of Qs. And is the reason she's worse than other low cooldown mages, Karthus, Swain and Cassiopeia have skills to get around mana problems, Ryze builds a shittone of mana and Vladimir's manaless. (Also all of them have some innate or built tankiness, except Cass and Syndra).

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    • Syndra is a monster, no one said it but she has an insane poke power, i mean, with the good build, your burst OS every carry ap/ad, her stun has an incredible range, you can easily stun and instakill a poor carry or support if he does any little mistake.

      The fact is there are some chars that are underrated (because people don't see them played in pro games really often for example) or for other reasons, and syndra is one of them (one of the reasons is that she was underpowered when she came out.

      Her endgame is really usefull, but it's a really hard char to play in teamfight.

      Strenght: Easy Farm, Insane Burst, Incredible CC, Range, Diversity of possible builds.

      Problems: Mana cost (really need Blue buff), Skillshot char, Not really tanky.

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    • She is average in early game but she gets OP in late game. Just first buy that AP rylais crystal scepter( thing that makes your spells slow the enemy ). And after that she is intoucheble. ESPECIALLY in late game. I bought Syndra 10 days ago and palyed her ove 20 times. Lost only 1-2 times and always play mid. She is like the best AP that has ever entered League of Legends. She has 100% difficulty but it's not that hard to learn how to play her. 


      She is the best AP definitely i dont know how do you get that information that she is the worst in late game? SHE IS ABSOLUTELY OP!

      First buy The tear of the goddess for mana and unlock all abilities and later MAX RANK TO Q (dark shepre)!


      I think she is the bast champion ever,and all those who say she sucks,are sucky players!

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    • and also,enemies are angry when you scatter the weak on your dark shepres so they get stunned : - )

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    • She gets a lot stronger at level 9 and 13 because of the boost her primary spells get.

      But it doesn't change the fact that she can't initiate, has low burst outside of her ultimate, that using E before her ult is suboptimal and her ult is so telegraphed (not instant, and then every sphere hits at a different time) that it's easy to use a shield/heal/other and if needed flash out of range to ensure that there won't a follow-up.

      She is squishy and has to get very close to ult (675 range of an AD or AP carry means that everyone in the enemy team should be in range to it you with autos or spells, even a Sivir since her build will include MS and yours oughtn't), but her ult isn't a teamfight changer like Orianna's or Galio's, rather it's a finisher for a single person. Unless it's worth it to sacrifice yourself to get a single enemy down, you'll have less utility.


      Consider it like this: you have good sustained dps from Q and because Syndra has great synergy with CDR (to be able to fuel your ult quickly), so she should have good utility through low-medium cooldowns on W and E too. Compared to a burst mage like Brand or Xerath, you're stronger the longer the fights goes on. So you can't sacrifice yourself during the initiation stage just to kill someone, you'd be losing most of your teamfighting strength. On the other hand, if you wait for the clean-up phase or a safe moment to ult a key target (which will always be hard against an AD carry with good positioning, especially if he has long range like Caitlyn or Tristana, and if his team can peel for him) then it's like only bringing utility and some dps to the fight: without your ult you have no burst, and teams with strong initiation (like Annie or Orianna for example) can abuse this fact by outputing a lot more damage than you before you get to ult safely. It's no huge having a clear shot on the enemy AD if you have already lost the fight by that point.


      This makes Syndra a pretty awkward AP champion, mostly because of her range, despite the excellent utility that she brings and the medium-range poke she provides.

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    • Most people don't like Syndra because she's rather diffucult to learn to play. Over all she is deadly on most 1v1s and is pretty helpful in team fights because of her ult/wave combo.

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    • Shes not UP in any way shape or form late game. Thats her strength. She isnt played in Pro games right now because they just enabled her for Championship play. They usually have to wait a 3-4 month period before Professionals can play a champion in a tourney because they havent been completely sorted out yet and usually, not too many builds, counters or strategies are known about using them or playing against them. Syndra wasnt a popular champion at all on release, so naturally what does Riot do to fix that? BUFF THE SHIT OUT OF HER SO SHE IS BOUGHT. Now, any time you go up against one, you get facerolled. I have played against too many to know that she is now without a doubt overpowered.

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    • So she has a hard time reaching the carry, yes.. But against a good working team this is the case with nearly all AP's.

      But there are different ways to use her potential, imo every champ is kinda situational and if i want to pick Syndra, i would neither look at my mid enemy, nor at the ADC directly.

      I would take Syndra against these carry-jumping enemies like Jax, or Wukong. So in a teamfight you can do your sustained damage till they want to burst your carry, and if they do, burst them down (though they are tankier than an adc, using a dfg you can do it) and use your e for the rest of their team. You just need some of this gapclosing guys yourself, since the carry isnt the first one dying and your ult is out.

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    • keep in mind that syndras difficulty is 100. she is all skill shots and aoe(except for ulti)

      cdr is AMAZING on her considering that at max 40% cdr she can deal 240 damage every 2.3 seconds. add some AP on to that and your golden. 

      also she farms super nicely, when i play her, i at least expect at least 250 minion kills at the end of the game, she has huge burst potential. but she also has imo one of the hardest skill shots in the game, her q/e combo stun. but what makes up for the difficulty is the fact that if you are good enough, you can stun the entire team. it also has very good range for a stun. my last game i played with her, i landed the skill shot stun at maximum range, the guy was so stunned (no pun intended) 

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    • You HAVE to sell your boots at some point in late game. I've had nothing but problems when i don't. I'm talking final build. It should not include boots. Get magic pen boots to start but sell them eventually. Get a mejai early and just dont die. If you play her right final build should be something like Deathcap, Full stack mejai soulstealer, Zonya, Deathfire, Void Stick, and then something like another deathfire or an abbysmal sceptor. I've experimanted with the Rylai + Liandry combo instead of a voidstick but she is PURE burst damage. I heard she has 2nd highest burst in game or something. Anyway with this build you get OVER 1000 AP. In a team fight you should throw out your Q, then use your W to put up a second Sphere. Use your E as soon as the bulk of the fighting starts to help your team. Try to get to their carry to use your ult which should be enough to kill them. if not, keep Q'ing till the adc is dead. Another option is to have your tank or some with a taunt distract them, Ult someone and then use your E on all the dark sphere's for a garunteed stun. Anyways, you need to have over 900 AP late game to really be useful. With the recent AP value changes on DF and Z plus the 30% bonus from Rab you might be able to reach 1100 AP. 991 is the highest i ever got but I wasnt testing or trying to reach the highest and that was without a full stack mejai. Regardless, try this. It usually works for me. 

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    • 171.231.26.233 wrote:
      she has average-bad team fight potential and she cant spltpush. no moar argument needed, she is bad late game,

      syndra is amazing late game, her sustained AOE damage is just amazing + amazing AOE stun, also she has ult to immediatly burst down 1 person, of course she is really hard to play

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    • I just think there's a lot of people here who don't know her true potential nor know how to play her, no matter how hard they try. Syndra has the HIGHEST single target burst damage in game with a pretty extense AoE. The only buffs she's gotten are range buffs, other than that...if you get a shit build, expect a shit outcome, just like with any other champion.

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    • I just think there's a lot of people here who don't know her true potential nor know how to play her, no matter how hard they try. Syndra has the HIGHEST single target burst damage in game with a pretty extense AoE. The only buffs she's gotten are range buffs, other than that...if you get a shit build, expect a shit outcome, just like with any other champion.

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    • I just think there's a lot of people here who don't know her true potential nor know how to play her, no matter how hard they try. Syndra has the HIGHEST single target burst damage in game with a pretty extense AoE. The only buffs she's gotten are range buffs, other than that...if you get a shit build, expect a shit outcome, just like with any other champion.

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    • Lots of people fail to realize that she has the most flexible position in a teamfight.  Her kit and build options allow you to pop out and kill the carry/severly wound the problem child tanky dps, or to be a sustained damage mage who just dont care after about 1/2 of your health is gone, or she can be a powerful counter pick against "jumpy" people(i.e. jax, irelia, or anybody who noms carries themselves).

      On the building side of things CDR, and ap take priority and penetration is always nice, typically you will get blue(if you don't, your team doesn't want to win) so truthfully you don't need mana regen/CDR past Athene's or morello's if you manage mana like a bause.

      Playing her is simple a matter of practice and how you want to use her, or how your team wants to--remember flexible role, but in all cases using scatter the weak at proper times and in proper places is key.  You can pop out of a bush or jungle snipe the carry and e the team into a nasty initiate for your team, yeah you might die but hey teamfight won.  She can remain back from the fight and when she has a good number of ballz out BAM most of enemy stunned and that guy just got chosen for doom. If somebody jumps on your adc or more likely you, just ball stun (takes about .6 sec with practice) ult and enjoy the enemy team not having a body/source of dps.

      No she is not UP, except really early when the jungler needs blue (hint: play with a manaless jungle), mid game she becomes a machine, but later her role becomes subtler and far more powerful on the course of a teamfight than over the participants of that teamfight. In late game do NOT expect to get many more kills, you really shouldn't need them anyway, and be careful with your use of your e and r.

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    • I havent seen to many syndra but when i do i get facerolled sadly ;( if countering just pick fizz :D 

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    • Syndra is actually awesome in all game phases, I main her and I go normal/ranked with her. Her Q is all-time low cd and performs awesome burst. Her W is for the funz AND carrying tibbers around (lol). Seriously, her W is awesome for popping up more balls for her ulti or for slowing some focuses, goes well with QWQEQ(R) combo. E is actually the most awesome thing about her; if chasing, QE insta stun with following QW and R if beating a carry or a fed enemy, if being chased (especially if your mates are running low AND being chased), QE still helps a whole lot IF done properly and fast. Early game she beats asses, even against her counters (fizz, akali, ahri) as you can lasthit minions from distance with your Q, stun your enemies if they perform ulti (especially akali and ahri can be annoying). After lvl 6 or so, you must play a little bit more defensive and passive on mid thought, but you always must have atleast 30% of your mana available, so better to start off with tear/morellonomicon, build rylais afterwards for some survivability, go for some kills/gank top/bot if possible, and go for rabadons.


      In teamfights, combine rylais with her slow/stun and your team is in major lead afterwards, since she can go support-ish with her stun/slow aswell.

      They got a fed carry? focus your full powered ult on it and it's done. for the luckers, take an ignite too.

      Syndra is anything but useless/up, her damage is crazy, and getting a counterbuild against her will definitely make you lack your AP/AD/armor and get beaten by others, yet she'd STILL get use of her stun/slow.

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    • what I've also forgotten to mention, yes, I agree with someone who posted before, you prioritize getting the blue buff as syndra, as it makes your bombing, defense and EVERYTHING more viable. I always rush for blue first if we don't have a jungler, or if Lee Sin/Rengar or any other manaless jungler of ours allows me to get one. :)

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    • Here's the thing about Syndra and the reason's why she isn't picked: her skill cap is absurd, it's all skill shots in a nutshell, and tricky ones at that, her cap is perhaps higher than LeBlanc's. Second, she's slow as a snail. Third, her stun and slow are only semi-reliable becuase they only work in combo. Fourth, she CHUGS Mana.

      While that may sound like a bad champ, you can do certain items and builds to counter that and play to her strengths: Athene's gives you mana and CDR, which fixes most of her mana issues and makes her combo a bit easier since you can spam the Q's easier. Zhonya's helps with defenses and that awesome active to survive, not to mention the AP increase. Deathfire Grasp is just brutal, offensive-wise. Not just the stacks (massive AP, and good CDR) but the active increases her insane burst to nuclear levels, that can help against tanks. Rabadon's (no need to talk about that). Void Staff and Boots for the Magic pen. Just the CDR from Athene's and DFG (better before nerf) helps you put around 3 spheres, 4 max (very hard though) which is great for the AoE's and ult, and the damage is just...scary...nuclear. She has other options, but in terms of melting down enemy champs this was the best i saw...so far, that is.

      The thing with champs like Syndra is that people are scared about her skill cap...she can tear her enemies apart, and do lots of stuff...but you have to work her...a lot...so alot of people think: "Why would i take something like this, which will take all 5 buttons to get the job done, when i can take another champ, with 2 buttons and get the same job done?" As such, people won't care about the awesome stuff Syndra can do. You can poke, bully, dis-engage, farm decently, burst down, steal Blues/Reds (funniest thing ever)...She's extremely OP, has an awesome and fun kit...but you're gonna have to work extremely hard to use her to her fullest...she requires and deserves alot of dedication.

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    • She is insane at late game.

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    • From experience I can say she's still good late game, but not as strong as mid-game. Syndra is that mid-game burst assassin mage who just kills everyone in mid game and takes down key targets with her combo. I have recently had very much success getting more than 18 kills in 3 ranked games as Syndra. You need to build DFG and Zhonyas though, in order to be able to burst anyone who threatens you and also so you can wait for cooldowns after the full combo and if you're getting focused. The enemies of Syndra are mobile assassins with tons of burst. For example: Fizz can just hop and dodge everything you throw at him and get close to you and kill you, Kassadin can silence you and leave you useless as he jumps onto you when you tried to land a sphere on him. She does fare well against other mid-range mages, or those who deal sustained damage. The reason your friends might use the excuse is because they think you can't play Syndra, I mean her skill-cap can be considered godly for a LoL player, because it really does take a few games to figure out what you can do. Anyways I'd still recommend you play her and don't listen to your friends, just make sure that their mobile assassins (Kha Fizz Kass LeBlanc) aren't there to murder you. Also one other champion I really had problems with mid was Nunu, dealing with that guy in lane is hard when your own champion lacks sustain, but late game he was pretty much useless.

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    • Personally, I think Syndra's only real flaw is her lack of a real passive. However, she is one of the best late-game mages in my opinion. In the late game, her mana problems disappear, and with a full build she can kill anyone with her full combo with relative safety. She has potentially amazing CC in teamfights if she uses her E and W properly, and even if the enemy marksman dodges her Q she can still lay down orbs and use her DFG+ult to one-shot them.

      The only trouble you're going to get with her is her insanely high skill requirement. There's a huge power difference between a good Syndra and a great Syndra, let alone between a good Syndra and a decent Syndra. Whereas you can still do stuff with other champions even if you're bad at them, a bad Syndra will be completely useless to her team. You need to be absolutely on point with her mechanics and maintain perfect positioning and timing to do everything right, and to do this you're going to have to dedicate yourself to practicing Syndra for a long, long time. If you're not completely familiar with her, you're not going to be making significant contributions to teamfights, and will run the risk of feeding if you tend to mess up her combo. So no, Syndra's late game is one of the best out of any mage, you just need to master her (and really master her, not just play her for a few games) to make the most out of her abilities.

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    • Skill cap is godly for League of Legends, though not so much for DotA/HoN players. I can't really say I've mastered her in 20 games, since I can't land the perfect comboes and I still feel that adrenaline rush when we're both low and moving so we try to dodge each other's skills which might end up killing me , also I rarely do the Ult > E combo and most of the time my ult consists of 5 spheres since I really think that it's enough for her and I don't want it to look as obvious. My usual combos: Q>E>W>Q>R or Q(close to myself)>W>E>Q>R. For harass I do the Q(close to me)>W>Q but I don't do the close to me Q if there are minions nearby, or just lay down spheres on them and if they engage on me I use Q>E>W>Q and they back off.

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    • I checked dates of patches and this thread. Syndra was buffed 2 times since her release with numerous QoL changes.

      As a newbie I found this wiki as a means to understand the game, since guy who showed me this game was as green as me. My first owned champ was Cho'Gath as he was okay for me, played him in a rotation.

      Then as I slowly gathered IP and was reaching 6300IP mark I've spend few good hours of reading about most champions that've been available then. I believe it was after Nami's release, 3 days before Fiddlestick's Dark Candy skin went live.

      First thing that got my attention was... Syndra's icon. :D

      I read lore, listened theme, saw login animation, checked kit and I was like, "This is it!". Bought her the very next day.

      I don't remember my first impression, but I like to think that it felt like we were meant to be  together.

      I loved her looks, her voice, her history, her abilities seemed like if I were there - in the Fields of Justice - using them. I still feel this way. Even though I parted ways with Syndra on numerous occasions - Karma rework, pre-reworked Yi then reworked but not yet nerfed Yi, Lucian's and Jinx's releases, now Yasuo's - I always ended in the same situation. Summoning Syndra yet again.

      After over a year of exploring different build paths and playing countless match-up both blind and draft, playing countless normal games, 244 ranked games in Season 3 and 42 - still counting -  ranked games in Season 4, I've learnt a lot.

      With enough practice I was able to outplay champions like Zed, LeBlanc, Fizz, Ziggs, Lux, Gragas, Vladimir, Ahri, Akali, not to mention Katarina, Orianna and Twisted Fate, even Yasuo and Kassadin seem like scrub champs (save the fact of Kassadin's snowball).

      If enemy jungler makes one wrong step or comes with less than 70% hp for a gank after first clear, it's double buff for me at level 3-4. For the next 3 minutes enemy laner is dead whenever he get's into autoattack range resulting in 99% kill potential once Syndra gets level 6.

      Pre trinket system we were always setting up a ward at enemy blue, denying it from that poor soul that already was 0/2/0.


      Somebody mentioned Syndra doesn't have passive. Do you consider Shyvana to not have passive? What about Victor? Maybe Annie? She has passive and it's good for what it provides.

      Somebody mentioned Syndra doesn't have initiate. She can set up a Amumu's type ult every 12 seconds with base cooldowns and is much more reliable than Amumu's one-spell wonder.

      Somebody mentioned Syndra doesn't have much damage outside Unleashed Power's single target burst. Q5->E3 combo with 3 items is 700 AoE damage that stuns you for 1.5 second. With full build does so much damage that LeBlanc, Zed and Fizz shouldn't even consider leaving spawn. Q5->E->W5 deletes everything that has less than 1500 hp going to 2000 hp at level 18. And it's AoE that hits most, if not whole team.

      Now add ultimate that - with my build - does 2400 damage before taking resistance into account. On 80-48 sec cooldown. And I never buy DFG.

      Somebody mentioned Lux and Orianna have better ultimates. You may say that if you didn't compare them in game. Syndra has those as BASIC abilities on FRACTION of cooldowns of those "game changing"  ultimates.

      Somebody mentioned Syndra doesn't have splitpush potential. Q-E deletes any number of minions that get caught in range, unless those are super minions.


      Syndra can also siege just as well if not better than Orianna, Gragas and Ziggs, but also does more than any of those one-spell wonders in team fights with her immense versality, cooldowns and damage. Not to mention her counter siege potential of holding whole enemy team at bay.

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    • Vistha-Kai wrote:
      I checked dates of patches and this thread. Syndra was buffed 2 times since her release with numerous QoL changes.

      As a newbie I found this wiki as a means to understand the game, since guy who showed me this game was as green as me. My first owned champ was Cho'Gath as he was okay for me, played him in a rotation.

      Then as I slowly gathered IP and was reaching 6300IP mark I've spend few good hours of reading about most champions that've been available then. I believe it was after Nami's release, 3 days before Fiddlestick's Dark Candy skin went live.

      First thing that got my attention was... Syndra's icon. :D

      I read lore, listened theme, saw login animation, checked kit and I was like, "This is it!". Bought her the very next day.

      I don't remember my first impression, but I like to think that it felt like we were meant to be  together.

      I loved her looks, her voice, her history, her abilities seemed like if I were there - in the Fields of Justice - using them. I still feel this way. Even though I parted ways with Syndra on numerous occasions - Karma rework, pre-reworked Yi then reworked but not yet nerfed Yi, Lucian's and Jinx's releases, now Yasuo's - I always ended in the same situation. Summoning Syndra yet again.

      After over a year of exploring different build paths and playing countless match-up both blind and draft, playing countless normal games, 244 ranked games in Season 3 and 42 - still counting -  ranked games in Season 4, I've learnt a lot.

      With enough practice I was able to outplay champions like Zed, LeBlanc, Fizz, Ziggs, Lux, Gragas, Vladimir, Ahri, Akali, not to mention Katarina, Orianna and Twisted Fate, even Yasuo and Kassadin seem like scrub champs (save the fact of Kassadin's snowball).

      If enemy jungler makes one wrong step or comes with less than 70% hp for a gank after first clear, it's double buff for me at level 3-4. For the next 3 minutes enemy laner is dead whenever he get's into autoattack range resulting in 99% kill potential once Syndra gets level 6.

      Pre trinket system we were always setting up a ward at enemy blue, denying it from that poor soul that already was 0/2/0.


      Somebody mentioned Syndra doesn't have passive. Do you consider Shyvana to not have passive? What about Victor? Maybe Annie? She has passive and it's good for what it provides.

      Somebody mentioned Syndra doesn't have initiate. She can set up a Amumu's type ult every 12 seconds with base cooldowns and is much more reliable than Amumu's one-spell wonder.

      Somebody mentioned Syndra doesn't have much damage outside Unleashed Power's single target burst. Q5->E3 combo with 3 items is 700 AoE damage that stuns you for 1.5 second. With full build does so much damage that LeBlanc, Zed and Fizz shouldn't even consider leaving spawn. Q5->E->W5 deletes everything that has less than 1500 hp going to 2000 hp at level 18. And it's AoE that hits most, if not whole team.

      Now add ultimate that - with my build - does 2400 damage before taking resistance into account. On 80-48 sec cooldown. And I never buy DFG.

      Somebody mentioned Lux and Orianna have better ultimates. You may say that if you didn't compare them in game. Syndra has those as BASIC abilities on FRACTION of cooldowns of those "game changing"  ultimates.

      Somebody mentioned Syndra doesn't have splitpush potential. Q-E deletes any number of minions that get caught in range, unless those are super minions.


      Syndra can also siege just as well if not better than Orianna, Gragas and Ziggs, but also does more than any of those one-spell wonders in team fights with her immense versality, cooldowns and damage. Not to mention her counter siege potential of holding whole enemy team at bay.

      Hum...just a few questions...first...what build do you do on Syndra, that can do 2400 damage without the DFG? I'm really curious because: Zhyonias, DFG, Rabadon seem to be a trinity of sorts for AP mids because of the massive AP they give and their incredible secondary abilities...also DFG has immense synergy with Syndra because of it's active...it's like an unofficial extra Syndra ball...xD. Also how are you in ranks?

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    • Darksusanoo wrote:

      Hum...just a few questions...first...what build do you do on Syndra, that can do 2400 damage without the DFG? I'm really curious because: Zhyonias, DFG, Rabadon seem to be a trinity of sorts for AP mids because of the massive AP they give and their incredible secondary abilities...also DFG has immense synergy with Syndra because of it's active...it's like an unofficial extra Syndra ball...xD. Also how are you in ranks?

      I run AP/level Glyphs, flat AP Quints, 21/0/9 masteries.

      My build is as follows(in buy order):

      1. Athene's Unholy Grail

      2. Ionian Boots of Lucidity and Rabadon's Deathcap

      4. Zhonya's Hourglass and Void Staff

      6. Archangel's Staff.

      This plus AP pot equals to 820 AP. As ultimate with 7 spheres does 1260(+ 1.4 AP) damage before resistances it is 1260(+ 1148) = 2408 magic damage with this build. That is, however, an extreme case, because window for 7 sphere ult is very short. Average ultimate takes 6 spheres. It's 1080(+ 1.2 AP) = 2064 magic damage before resistances. Then there are those damage amplification masteries. +4.5% (+9.5% if target is below 50% HP) more damage. Did you know that: with above build Unleashed Power is available ever 48 seconds?

      And no, I don't like items with actives, DFG forces me to walk into range of every bruiser and assassin's dash in the game - that's the last thing you want as Syndra. Also Seraph's gives me just as much if not more AP and that shield saved my life more times than I can count.


      Currently I'm in hanging around G4/G5. Let's say I haven't played play Syndra when I should and my average team's ELO drops by 1000 points whenever I'm in a promo xD


      PS. Just a friendly request, if you could cut the parts of my text that you weren't interested in when asking questions, that would be great. I mean, why to prolong thread with quoting that wall of text I did right above your post, no? :)

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    • Vistha-Kai wrote:

      I run AP/level Glyphs, flat AP Quints, 21/0/9 masteries.

      6. Archangel's Staff.

      This plus AP pot equals to 820 AP. As ultimate with 7 spheres does 1260(+ 1.4 AP) damage before resistances it is 1260(+ 1148) = 2408 magic damage with this build. That is, however, an extreme case, because window for 7 sphere ult is very short. Average ultimate takes 6 spheres. It's 1080(+ 1.2 AP) = 2064 magic damage before resistances. Then there are those damage amplification masteries. +4.5% (+9.5% if target is below 50% HP) more damage. Did you know that: with above build Unleashed Power is available ever 48 seconds?

      And no, I don't like items with actives, DFG forces me to walk into range of every bruiser and assassin's dash in the game - that's the last thing you want as Syndra. Also Seraph's gives me just as much if not more AP and that shield saved my life more times than I can count.

      But here's the thing that's messing with me...by running AP/level glyphs, you're basically abandoning any form of defence on Syndra, since the glyphs are usually used for magic resist. And to form Seraph's is tricky in the Rift, even if you rush the Tear in the early game, unlike ARAM. Plus i always mention DFG, not only for the damage and active, but for the extra CDR...which helps in having more balls on the field. With 30% CDR (from DFG and Athene's) you can have your Q up every 2,8 seconds..with a blue you max 40%, it's 2,4 seconds...so you can have 7 spheres on the field on a more even basis and 6 almost always...plus by using the Ionian boots, while the CDR is nice, you forgo the key magic penetration from sorcerer's which with the Void Staff helps break through those pesky magic resistances...also like everything else on Syndra, if you take the DFG, you have to time the active...me and my friends tend to use it after, we've smacked the guy with the slow or stun. Plus the DFG range on the active is the same as the one on Unleashed Power (after Syndra's passive aplies) and longer than Scatter the Weak. (DFG =750, U.Power = 675/750, Scatter the Weak = 700)...you already have to get close to use those anyway.

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    • So yeah. I wanted to open a page in new window and instead opened it in this one, silly me.

      In short, 'cuz I made another wall'o'text here:

      1. As a mid laner you have to be able to dodge spells, as such resists are meaningless.

      2. I have a dedicated rune page with resists in case enemy would pick a champion like Brand.

      3. Archangel's takes minimum of 6 minutes and 15 seconds to charge and Syndra has 2.4 sec Q. It's not tricky, just spam Q whenever Tear is off cooldown.

      4. Magic penetration is more valued in early-mid game. That's also the time where Syndra benefits most from CDR because of long base cooldowns on everything that isn't Dark Sphere. It's personal preference really. Question: Do I want to have more burst or lower cooldowns, more utility and just as much damage overall? You shouldn't rely on blue buff to give you cooldown reduction, especially in Season 4.

      5. I do use Void Staff, I don't understand what are you refering too.

      6. For me Scatter the Weak has range of 1100, bad comparison.

      7. I tried DFG once. Didn't like it one bit.

      8. As I said, I experimented with many different builds and this one I've found most suiting for my tastes. Prove me that I lied in the previous sentence.

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    • Ha? Lied in what? I only mentioned the ranges of the DFG, Scatter the Weak and Unleashed Power, which are similar, when you said that you didn't like using it becuase you had to get close. http://gameinfo.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/syndra/ 

      Ok, in another subject...if you were a part of Riot in charge of the nerf/buff department, what would nerf/buff on Syndra?

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    • Whenever people are to complain about my build it is either about my choice of boots or getting Tear after Athene's(at any point of the game). "Lie" part was about my preferences.

      Buff or nerf... I always like her the way she was, perhaps ult range but that was fixed the very next week I thought it was an issue. Now, I don't even pay attention to this part of passive. I just wish Ignite range would match. :D

      But back to the actual question, I'd modify Scatter the Weak cone in a way that it's wider close to Syndra. You know, like a funnel. It always bugged me to get killed by Zed because I missed him by a pixel.

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    • But back to the actual question, I'd modify Scatter the Weak cone in a way that it's wider close to Syndra. You know, like a funnel. It always bugged me to get killed by Zed because I missed him by a pixel.

      Hum...true that...increase the width, how far enemies are knocked back and her movement speed...all in little amounts...could give her a more consistant escape...

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    • Syndra's movement speed is a standard for ranged AP mids. I don't see a reason to change that. Scatter the Weak range was the last buff Syndra got, actually. We don't want her to get nerfed to the ground because she is too popular, do we?


      One comment on the original topic:

      Syndra can deny many game changing spells. Think of Helicopter Dick, Pantheon's stun and Mandrop, Shyvana's Dragon Descent and Amumu's Bandage + CotSM combo. With range of 1100 and virtually no cast time.

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    • True...given Riot's nerf policy...either way most people just can't put their finger, on how they are so scared to pick up a Syndra...i find her damage highly appealing, and her combo-based gameplay very fun to mess with...

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    • She isn't that rarely picked in higher ELOs. I always find at least one game from challenger/diamond with Syndra. Plus I've heard she is a contested pick in asian championships.

      No way to check myself, though. Time isn't appealing for me and I always forget to watch it later.

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    • Well since i'm a regular viewer of LCS this season, i only saw one Syndra game and i think it was C9 vs CLG, and while Syndra did good on the laning phase against LeBlanc, a staple mid champ...the team was demolished as a whole, which didn't allow people to see how good she can be...

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    • I saw this match, too. Yeah it was sad, but CLG( I think it was CLG, at least) mid laner denied 2 or 3 Shyvana's Dragon Descents. That didn't change anything, because there is so much you can do being 0/10 as a team.

      But you know what? I don't really mind Syndra being considered niche or not viable/underpowered. It gets really rewarding to score penta and carry a team with champion that some people call "Lissandra". Seriously, I met two like this in LoL and know similar guy in real life. :D

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    • Never got my hands on Lissandra, so i don't get the comparison.

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    • I guess it's their knowledge about some champions.

      Like one of my other friends thought that Scatter the Weak is Syndra's ultimate.

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    • Well in a way it can act as one if you use after Unleashed Power...with 5-6 spheres on the field, you'll do alot of damage and get a stun off for sure...Syndra's kit is just that flexible...

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    • About stun... I've played one game today and I couldn't land one single stun that wasn't full range. Enemy got fed like hell, because all the edge that I could use wasn't working properly. Then my jungler said he has lags and dc'd some time later.

      Once he came back, 5 minutes passed and magically I can kill that 11/4/4 Kayle, because stun part works again. Riot servers at their best. Phew

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    • You want to hear the lategame strengths of Syndra? I can think of a lot, but here are just the ones that I remember specifically won me a game.

      1. It's very hard for enemies to push a lane vs you, even if they're pretty fed, so you can stall for help to get there or hold on to your turrets long enough for your team to catch up.

      2. If you lose an inhibitor due to a lost teamfight, super minions won't be much of a threat because you can simply throw them into your spawning fountain rather than try to tank them as they push your nexus turrets.

      3. If your team has some multi-target lockdown (J4 combo, Zyra snare/ult, Sona/annie ult, etc.) all you have to do to win the teamfight is be there, press Q-WW-Q-R-E or your preferred combo on their 3+ people that are cc'ed, and you win that fight. It really is that simple.

      4. Syndra's lategame fits well with all popular comps, and she has a lot of kill potential on even the tankiest champions due to her high damage and relatively low cooldowns. 

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    • Syndra is a mix of brutal AOE DPS and immense single target burst. Most people have to choose between being able to instantly annihalate someone late game or chunk down the entire enemy team. Not Syndra. Her E has a ridiculous projectile speed and range, allowing you to stun someone from out of sight (and it's a pretty long stun), then walk up, Q-R and instantly kill them.

      Her Q is deceptively easy to land - its radius is about as large as a Ziggs Q, but it has no travel time and a really short delay, coupled with a huge range. W has an even larger AOE, is even easier to land, and provides more damage and slowing.

      Syndra's kit allows for strong teamfighting as well as deadly assassinations - at the same time. The only real weakness Syndra has is her lack of mobility, but frankly having a knockback + stun in one ability really makes it not a huge deal in many situations. That and her mana costs,  although early game Q costs virtually nothing. 

      I don't know why people would say Syndra has a weak lategame. For that matter, I don't see why people would say Syndra has a weak anything. Her laning is strong against most opponents, she has strong assassination/pick capability, and strong enough low-CD AOE to contribute a lot to teamfights. 

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    • The thing is...the meta isn't favouring Syndra...with the rise of high mobility champions (Zed, Kha'Zix, Yasuo, Le Baguette, among others), Syndra falls behinds because she can get caught off super easy...her main problem is essencially crippling her...she's suffers from an extreme lack of mobility/escape, which has been a cornerstone in this season 4 for max viability...Which is a shame. Syndra to me is one of the most well designed champions in the game, lore, visual and ability wise, and to be so underplayed because of this is sad.

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    • Extreme lack of mobility/escape? Yeah, join the other 20 AP mids without those. 

      But seriously, coming from a guy who's braved AD Sion and Mordekaiser, Syndra has very easy escapes from anything but, say, Vi (does anyone have escapes from Vi?). You've got a decently hard AOE decently long easy to land long-range slow, one of the best disengages in the game on your E, and enough damage to easily turn it around and pick up a kill at LEAST.

      The meta isn't favoring 90% of the champions in this game, but why should you let that keep you from playing them? The game is winnable on all champions, and it's that way for a reason. 

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    • Darksusanoo wrote:
      The thing is...the meta isn't favouring Syndra...with the rise of high mobility champions (Zed, Kha'Zix, Yasuo, Le Baguette, among others), Syndra falls behinds because she can get caught off super easy...her main problem is essencially crippling her...she's suffers from an extreme lack of mobility/escape, which has been a cornerstone in this season 4 for max viability...Which is a shame. Syndra to me is one of the most well designed champions in the game, lore, visual and ability wise, and to be so underplayed because of this is sad.

      Funny that you listed champions like Yasuo, Kha'Zix and LeBlanc. These are among of the easiest assassins to shutdown as Syndra.

      Kha'Zix can't jump on Syndra under any circumstances, Yasuo can't block Syndra's Q and W, sometimes can even get stunned. LeBlanc is simillar to Kha'Zix as she has to waste ult to close the gap or deal 0 damage and die instantly at level 6. Zed is also managable, but you know... Death Mark and sheeez.

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    • I agree with Vistha-Kai: if there's anyone Syndra's weak against, it's not assassins. If she gets attacked at close range she can instantly peel with a Q+E combo, and follow up with a W and ultimate to easily take down squishy champions. She is, however, vulnerable to CC, and if the marksman focuses her she goes down pretty quickly. I think part of why she's not picked as much as she could be, aside from her monstrous skill requirement, is that hyper-mobile tanky champions like Vi and Renekton can easily run up to her, sustain her burst/peel and shred her while also stunlocking her, and it's these champions that tend to be picked the most at the moment.

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    • Vistha-Kai wrote:
      Darksusanoo wrote:
      The thing is...the meta isn't favouring Syndra...with the rise of high mobility champions (Zed, Kha'Zix, Yasuo, Le Baguette, among others), Syndra falls behinds because she can get caught off super easy...her main problem is essencially crippling her...she's suffers from an extreme lack of mobility/escape, which has been a cornerstone in this season 4 for max viability...Which is a shame. Syndra to me is one of the most well designed champions in the game, lore, visual and ability wise, and to be so underplayed because of this is sad.
      Funny that you listed champions like Yasuo, Kha'Zix and LeBlanc. These are among of the easiest assassins to shutdown as Syndra.

      Kha'Zix can't jump on Syndra under any circumstances, Yasuo can't block Syndra's Q and W, sometimes can even get stunned. LeBlanc is simillar to Kha'Zix as she has to waste ult to close the gap or deal 0 damage and die instantly at level 6. Zed is also managable, but you know... Death Mark and sheeez.

      The reason i mentioned them is because right now they are the poster childs of the hyper mobile assassins in this season 4 (note my sarcasm with LeBlanc's name xD)

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    • Low mobility, single-target nukers — such as Malzahar, Veigar and Syndra — generally fall off late game because the ability to kill a single target becomes less important. But all mages fall off eventually. Mages are suppose to create pressure in mid-game skirmishes to allow the marksman to find his feet - because the marksman is public-enemy-number-one, but mid-game the mage actually does more damage.

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    • Emptylord wrote:
      Low mobility, single-target nukers — such as Malzahar, Veigar and Syndra — generally fall off late game because the ability to kill a single target becomes less important. But all mages fall off eventually. Mages are suppose to create pressure in mid-game skirmishes to allow the marksman to find his feet - because the marksman is public-enemy-number-one, but mid-game the mage actually does more damage.

      The thing is that all of them, despite excelling at single-target nuking, also have at least some AOE capabilities. All of syndra's basic abilities are AOE, Veigar's stun and huge-ratio W is AOE (and you're more likely to hit someone without them standing still in a teamfight than in a 1v1 anyway), and Malzahar's high-damage AOE longest-silence-in-the-game Q is also AOE, and his bull-crap-lategame-damage W is also AOE (i'm just imagining the malzahar jarvan combo... it would be brutal. Late-game malzahar exceeds 70% max health AOE with his W.

      Their ability to kill a single target is less important, yes. But they all contribute substantial presence to teamfights as well, especially in the mid-game skirmishes you mention.

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    • I disagree on single-target spells becoming less important in the end game. In the late game, you're usually going up against a priority target -- typically, but not always, the marksman -- who needs to be taken down as quickly as possible before they can mess up your team. Since late-game mages have enough damage to take down even tanks, their single-target abilities should help them secure that kill for their team, provided they receive sufficient cover.

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    • I dislike of this mantra-like narrow-minded thinking of "ADC is the king of the late game, APC should carry the team through mid-game and then be another support".

      Mages contribute to teamfights with something more than just raw damage ADCs' are so known for. This thing is called "utility".

      Even if mage is set behind he can change the outcome of a match(unless it's LeBlanc) while ADCs can only go AFK if they aren't fed.

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    • Vistha-Kai wrote: I dislike of this mantra-like narrow-minded thinking of "ADC is the king of the late game, APC should carry the team through mid-game and then be another support".

      Mages contribute to teamfights with something more than just raw damage ADCs' are so known for. This thing is called "utility".

      Even if mage is set behind he can change the outcome of a match(unless it's LeBlanc) while ADCs can only go AFK if they aren't fed.

      You know what I really hate? People who consider the term "support" to be a derogatory term, as if it's in some way a role you shouldn't want to be or that it is less than you. That little thing you called "utility" is the primary job of supports - they enable, they disable, they peel, they empower. When a mage's damage falls off - they support. That is the entire distinction between the two classes that Riot have spent 3 seasons perfecting - damage versus utility. Your entire comment seems to revolve around the bizarre notion that "supporting" and "contributing utility" are two different things, as if you find the word "support" offensive.

      Another example of role-changing is Lee Sin who transitions from assassin to tank (Riot recently wanted to keep him a capable assassin all game, but those plans were put on hold because they didn't appreciate that players liked the transition).

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    • Willbachbakal wrote:
      I agree with Vistha-Kai: if there's anyone Syndra's weak against, it's not assassins. If she gets attacked at close range she can instantly peel with a Q+E combo, and follow up with a W and ultimate to easily take down squishy champions. She is, however, vulnerable to CC, and if the marksman focuses her she goes down pretty quickly. I think part of why she's not picked as much as she could be, aside from her monstrous skill requirement, is that hyper-mobile tanky champions like Vi and Renekton can easily run up to her, sustain her burst/peel and shred her while also stunlocking her, and it's these champions that tend to be picked the most at the moment.

      I can't say Syndra isn't weak vs assassins, personally I believe she is (though perhaps no more than most champions with poor mobility?)

      I do agree with the parts about CC, marksmen, and hyper-mobile champions though. One of the biggest problems comes when something causes a number of your basic skills to miss during fights--this can happen from all kinds of things, like being too far to reliably hit anything, one of your team's abilities knocks them out of the way, etc. The reason this is a problem is because it means if you're not farmed/fed/they're so far ahead they even got some MR vs you...well, you won't be able to reliably peel them off if they get on top of you (note: reliably) and chances are very good your ult won't kill them.

      The impetus this gives you in lategame assuming you couldn't really be considered fed or farmed, is to not miss a single spell, stay far back until you've landed some spells, make sure you have zhonyas (which isn't even considered core on Syndra, so it's hard to pick up) in case of emergencies...really it's a lot! At least, a lot considering there are champions like Orianna, Karma, or Lissandra who can more or less get right up in there and rely on things like shields, mobility spells, invulnerability, heals, and (typically easier to land) crowd control to stay relatively safe.

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    • Emptylord wrote:

      You know what I really hate? People who consider the term "support" to be a derogatory term, as if it's in some way a role you shouldn't want to be or that it is less than you. That little thing you called "utility" is the primary job of supports - they enable, they disable, they peel, they empower. When a mage's damage falls off - they support. That is the entire distinction between the two classes that Riot have spent 3 seasons perfecting - damage versus utility. Your entire comment seems to revolve around the bizarre notion that "supporting" and "contributing utility" are two different things, as if you find the word "support" offensive.

      I guess this is what I get for writing around midnight.

      Yes, when I used word "support" it might've sounded offensive, but, for me, "support" and "contributing utility" are two different things.

      It's like saying that Talon is a support, because he has got single-targeted silence, wow.

      I don't even want to talk about it, for I rewrited this text 4 times and I still feel it should look differently.

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    • For me, "support" and "contributing utility" are the same thing.

      However, I do not consider Talon's single-target silence to be utility. It is part of his burst rotation.

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    • To be fair, every champion has utility in some form or another. The point of supports, though, is that their utility is altruistic, or at least can be made to significantly benefit others. Talon's silence is utility, but he only cares about bursting down his target, not about peeling for the carry or enabling kills for the rest of his team. Mages contribute utility because they can shut down a priority target and potentially lock down multiple members of the enemy team, but in the end their main goal in a teamfight is to deal as much damage as they can to the right people. That's not what a support does. Supports can lock down the enemy team too, but they're also there to make sure their own team stays alive. You can have magey supports who are offensively-focused, but in the end they need to be able to peel for their carry as well.

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    • Emptylord wrote:
      For me, "support" and "contributing utility" are the same thing.


      So basically everyone who isn't Morde, Fiora or Yi.

      I guess kids these days set the bar low now...

      Firstly a support (Who is playing their role correctly) is the person who pretty much sacrifices their soul and welfare benefits to make sure you don't get so much as blown on by some whimpy ass breeze. They will waste their time, money and even give up their life JUST so you can have the chance to get a few clicks and presses in before succumbing to the unholy combination of rear magic and physical penetration coming your way.

      Syndra is not even close to that. She'll swallow up mountains of gold and will not spend a lick of that to benefit her team unless it involves a climax of pure, magical hell and brimstone shot straight at the enemy teams back-line.

      And before you say something like 'Annie/Zyra/Lux/Oh-look-I-have-a-disable/buff! Support' That isn't a support, thats a kill lane. They'll buy wards and pretend to buy that boozy ass support item early on sure, but around the time teamfights start to happen you can bet they'll either consume every creep wave they can get their hands on to supplement their nuclear arsenal or risk becoming Mexico in the area of "I could have some nuking potential but I'd rather not... " And then have their one stun as the only thing to benefit the whole team as the grand master title of 'support' that you seem to like to hand out to any champion who manages to get their Darwins award.


      But seriously if you throw around the word support like that you undermine what it means to become a support and pretty much erode the foundations of what being an support actually requires. So you might as well get someone who can *cough*semi*cough* 'support' along with their currently role.

      TL:DR. Yes, Syndra has some form of utility and she is great and all but she isn't the pure hunk of a support that Taric is.

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    • Firstly, do not call me a child; and secondly, do not take what I said out of context and then try to use it against me. While technically I do set my bar low for what it means to be a support, I set my bar HIGH on what I consider "contributing utility". Crowd control is not necessarily utility, particularly if it's unreliable or part of a selfish rotation.

      I main bot lane, and I have done from Silver through to Platinum. When supporting, this season I play almost exclusively Morgana (hurr durr I have a snare and a buff, I'm obviously just a kill lane), and dabble with Annie, Zyra (my support main in season 3), Thresh, Galio (my support main in season 2, along with Jarvan) and Vel'Koz (a kill lane that's surprisingly reliable). I have played Syndra support and she was surprisingly effective due to exceptionally high utility and base damage for a "Mage", and I'd say she's as good as Lulu or Janna. Lulu is actually one of the best examples of how blurry the line between mages and supports is.

      Sorry, but the fact you consider what a support is doing as "wasting their time just to help their carry" is evident that you are not a support player (or, rather, that you do not play support competitively). Supporting is full of high-impact moments and good teams will recognise your contribution to a team. I often earn the second most gold on the team as support - gold isn't an issue in Season 2014.

      P.S. Taric is the last support I'd ever choose. He's a tank-support hybrid, and he's not particularly good at either because of that.

      P.P.S. Calling a tank a good example of a support is kinda counter-intuitive for an argument about the sanctity of class differences.

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    • A total troll post, should not even bother wasting time giving a detailed reply to something like that. You obviously never played support with how you undermine  great supports like Taric and bias your toxic 'mages-pretending-to-be-support' bot lane idiology. And flaunting your rank as if it makes a difference to the millions of other platinums that fail to get into diomond 


      Morgana sucks, snare is too clunky, vat pool is useless without snare. If the any adc has any grit they'll harass pass magic shield making it worthless.

      Annie only has stun, just a good example of a mage pretending to be support and then becoming a mage again (Abide a worse mage if she doesn't steal farm)

      Zyra is ok, but just snare isn't enough to consider close to a support champion, plants will almost always be used for damage output, or else wasted instead for vision. Turns into mage later or else falls off quickly.

      Thresh + Galio good supports, although Galio is sort of a hybrid for how his builds could go.

      Vel'koz is still new, its too early to consider it good.

      Lulu is monkey, not burst or proper sistain damage. She will either run around like Nunu or die horribly when blown on. Requires another support to take role if she builds damage or else shoes will not be filled.

      Support is meant to sacrifice, you forget fundimentals of supporting. You can't be a good support player when you forget support is just the foundation maker and pretty much meat shield for the little adc until he can do something worth while later. If not I hope you from graduate high school soon.

      Supports are useful without gold and have a lot of utility, plus they are very strong early compared to most other champions if the player is worth his salt.

      And no, I did take your augment out of context, you just have a very, very bad tunnel vision. And your augment is very, very easy to play against.

      Support is to do with role, not the shred of 'utility' your think they have, or every other champion would considered a support for bot lane.

      And nice P.S's that make no sense to what I said, and you say I take wording out of context...

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    • There is little point arguing when we disagree on fundamental concepts. Furthermore, I do not really have any interest in arguing with you because you consider me a troll for simply disagreeing with you (and you call me a "kid" and attempt to belittle my education).

      P.S. I did not flaunt my rank, I merely used it as a point of reference - along with my references to the competitive seasons. Mannerisms change across seasons and ranks, and I was merely establishing where I stand. To prove a point, Morgana currently has the highest win rate of any support in Platinum at 74%/64% (weekly/monthly) - so my opinion is accurate of my position.

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    • Thats called 'flavour of the month.' Seen it too many times, will be replaced again.

      I shall take that crown now and that horse, thank you, goodbye.

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    • I'd say if it was pick rate then you could just dismiss it with your whole little "flavour of the month" cuteness thing but win rates and "flavor" have nothing to do with eachother. Morg doesn't win more games than other supports because she's more popular, she wins more games because she's performing stronger than they are. To think of it as anything else is just silly.

      Sorry to butt in, I just found this little back and forth you guys having been doing somewhat... interesting but that logical fallacy was just too much for me.

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    • How is it a fallacy? If Morgana is popular people play her more, she sees more games, people will try to supplement her weakness and thus the knowledge of playing her will more easily accessible. Thus people will do well with her because many people try to master her, when a counter comes along and wrecks her, people will move to that one and then supplement that champions weaknesses, who will then be destoryed by another counter and so and so forth.

      Its a logical system where things that where considered weak and now strong, simply because of probability of what it will play against. Its pretty much like starcraft. Someone masses zerglings, you mass marines, they mass rouchs, you mass marauders ect. But its predicting what they choose. Not 'who is currently strongest.'

      Remember when AD casters assassins were going mid? Then items got nerfed and people found counters and then people either tried to fix the holes or like most people moved on. If Morgana proves to be so popular and such a 'go-to' pick then she will most likely get nerfed just like every other champion.

      Also take into account that this is "support Morgana" we are talking about and not "AP mid Morgana". Those stats prove nothing more than she is picked a lot and it surely doesn't say anything about her position, and while she appears good in platinum she is hardly played in platinum, in diomond she has a half win rate. With gold only being slightly higher in win rate. She is also shown as being hardly picked.

      If anything this proves that she is unpopular and only choosen under certain conditions. 

      And yes I did read the stats, I always used the stats to make my own point. Which is backed up by the same thing you claim helps your arugment.


      Thus, because she isn't choosen we can say she is obviously not built for our current meta. Which still proves my point either way. It is highly unlikely that support Morgana got those win-rates when much more useful builds exist.

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    • If you select Morgana's profile it tells you what items she's purchasing, including the top competitive builds. Zhonya's Hourglass item Zhonya's Hourglass is a staple, but the rest of the build varies: items such as Rod of Ages, Queen's Embrace, Ruby Sightstone, Abyssal Scepter, Liandry's, Rylai's... generic AP+Health, AP+Resist and Support+Health items.

      As you've said, being a support is as much about the mindset that it is about the champion. There is a difference between Morgana support and Morgana mage-bot. It's about how you play. How you focus your effort. She is an amazing support. Incidentally, she also counters Taric.

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    • Being underplayed still shows lack of usability. It also does not account for her allies, if she is fed of course she could afford these items, she could also afford to built as a proper mage.

      If my statistics showed I won more games with Yorick when I built a Phage it wouldn't mean the build won me the game, if anything it could simply be me being fed and being able to purchase the item. Thus her win rate with this build could also be due to the combination of allies. Just because a build works for a while doesn't mean it will stay that way or if it is even good. It just shows she happened to purchase those items while winning.

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    • Her win rate shows there is no lack of usability. Being underplayed could show a lack of understanding of how to play against her, but clearly her usability isn't an issue.

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    • It shows she is used in niche situations because she is picked less. Thus she is not as adaptable or useful as other supports or mages to be picked constantly. Being unpicked also means people lack profiling on the champion playing against her, if she was played more then people could easily find counters to her.


      My argument still stands.

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    • Patch Thresh OriginalSquare Thresh Leona OriginalSquare Leona Morgana OriginalSquare Morgana
      V4.3 41% pick, 49% win 39% pick, 53% win 21% pick (9th), 52% win
      V4.4 38% pick, 49% win 36% pick, 52% win 25% pick (6th), 53% win
      V4.5 37% pick, 45% win 32% pick, 52% win 29% pick (4th), 49% win
      V4.6.0.193 37% pick, 48% win 33% pick, 51% win 32% pick (4th), 50% win
      V4.6.0.201 36% pick, 49% win 28% pick, 53% win 31% pick (3rd), 52% win
      V4.6.0.204 36% pick, 50% win 35% pick, 51% win 33% pick (4th), 54% win

      That's funny. She's such a niche pick that she's been one of the most played champions in Ranked 5v5 for the past 3 months. It makes sense that she is popular right now, because she naturally counters Leona and Thresh (or, she at very minimum mitigates a lot of their threat and thus allows her lane partner to be more comfortable in-lane). Her popularity in V4.2 was almost non-existent, so I would assume that she was shown off in a tournament - although I was playing her long before then.

      7 out of the last 10 Ranked Solo Queue games played with her were as a support (based on item purchases and creep score). The remaining 3 all had support scores (few-to-no kills and high assists), but only two of those were taking creeps (so the other one was either playing mage-bot).

      P.S. Through some miscommunication, I ended up playing bot-lane Vel'Koz yesterday. I'd like to think I was a support and not a mage-thats-pretending. My play style, skill order and build were all adjusted. I bought DFG to compliment our magic-damage heavy team, and it's not something I would have purchases as a mage. I'm not saying Vel'Koz is a support, but it's as much about play style as it is a champion.

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    • Its flavour of the month then like before. 

      Also seeing you bounce from one set of numbers on one site to make one point and then a completely different site to make another doesn't really make your argument look better. Especially with the difference in data, if you don't believe one of them to have the right data then don't waste my time showing it to me.

      When you have something specific you can stick to call me, because I'd rather not play in some candy store.

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    • CreepyYellowDuck wrote: Its flavour of the month then like before. 

      Also seeing you bounce from one set of numbers on one site to make one point and then a completely different site to make another doesn't really make your argument look better. Especially with the difference in data, if you don't believe one of them to have the right data then don't waste my time showing it to me.

      When you have something specific you can stick to call me, because I'd rather not play in some candy store.

      Every site Emptylord is referencing pulls data directly from League of Legends. He also selected sites consistently based on the data he was presenting to you, and the information he's giving you doesn't contradict itself. You're acting on bad faith here, particularly as you yourself have so far not backed up any of your statements with facts.

      You're also derailing the discussion, and despite all your posts haven't generally contributed much. Instead, you've turned this thread into a personal argument, with you at the center of attention. You ought to move this to your talk page, or create a new thread based on the subject you actually want to talk about. The thread here's supposed to be about Syndra: the last time she was mentioned was twelve posts ago.

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    • Willbachbakal wrote: The thread here's supposed to be about Syndra: the last time she was mentioned was twelve posts ago.

      Not to mention it's a 2 year old post in an "archived" section. I should've closed/deleted this derail many posts ago but watching CreepyYellowDuck back himself into a corner was just too, idk... enjoyable, in a way, I don't get to read many "debates" about the game anymore. Oh well, as per Willbach, if you guys have anything further to say please take it to message walls or make a new thread on the active forum about this topic.

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