It's an underused items. No question about it. But before making random suggestions, I should point some things out.
For stats converted to gold value (not including armor pen), it provides around 2300 gold and around 3900 gold value when including active effect.
It provides 3 stats the synergizes well with each other (attack damage, attack speed, critical chance)
It builds off from an item that gives bonus gold
So, with that in mind. I still think that this item needs a small buff to make it viable and see use in the high leagues.
Just a suggestion that I personally think that would push it in the right direction and make it a viable melee DPS item. Ideally, it is to serve a few purposes: 1) make it cost efficient when active is off. 2) since it provides so much different stats, I tend to view this as an secondary item or utility item to boost what you already have. 3) increase sticking power without making backdooring to0 strong.
Grant it the passive ability of: Gain an additional 2 gold every kill. (Basically, it retains one of the effects of Avarice Blade)
Increase the critical chance to 25% from 15% (Ideally, this is just to make it cost it's worth without the need of the active effect. Adding 10% critical chance would increase the gold value about 500)
Increase the duration of the active effect for melee to 8 seconds from 6 seconds (duration should be long enough for any battle)
My personal problem with this item is that I'm not actually building a Brutalizer on carries or bruisers, just on AD casters, and for most of the latter, getting crit is just a major waste, and AS a lesser one, but still a waste. Plus most carries will use the Avarice Blade for getting a Stattik Shiv, and most bruisers will upgrade it into an Atma's Impaller, so your suggestion about a gold earning passive needs to switch the Avarice Blade (And therefore, the crit chance) for some other gp/10 item that could be more useful. Sadly, with the removal of the Heart of Gold, and given that most AD casters don't use AP or they have really poor AP ratios, the only choice here is the Philosopher's Stone, which still will be half a gold waste for Riven, Renekton, Lee Sin, and Zed.
Outside AD casters, I just simply feel that if I want armor pen, I'll just get a Last Whisper, and if I want AS, I'll stick to anyother thing, because even if the AS increase was substantial (Which it isn't, less than 45% AS on a legendary tier item is a shame, unless we're talking about Trinity which gives far more stats, or Statikk Shiv, which is far more reliable than this), it's just not permanent. Plus, as you stated, the AD is rather low, that's a problem when considering either building this, Last Whisper, or The Black Cleaver, and since it's in the same tier as TBC, boosting it's AD up to 50 should be optimal, although maybe a bit too high.
Last, but not least, my own suggestions for this item are: Either remove it from Summoner's Rift in favor of Lord Van Damm's Pillager (I guess that it can be useful in the Crystal Scar, it's just a mode I'm not so used to as the forementioned), or switch the AS into an unique passive where the AS comes from anyother source, like lower health like Maw of Malmortius' AD, stacking effects like Guinsoo's Rageblade, or some sort of system based on your character's level, I don't know. The MS buff could stay as an active, tho. It still won't be an AD caster item, but at least it will be useful for all those characters that people seems to build it in. Other than that, some other suggestions come to my mind, but they feel just too random or OP.
^I see, I see. First off, it is never meant to be an AD caster item. It's extremly clear with the critical chance and attack speed. So, I don't even know why you would consider it, especially now that Black Cleaver was reworked to be that AD caster item.
Second, brutalizer is not limited only to AD caster. A DPS melee champion can make the exact same good use out of that item like an AD caster. AD and armor pen is not exclusive AD caster stats, so if their was an viable melee DPS AD item, you would see those type of champions pick this up more.
Third, I do agree that no 'range' champion would grab this item as there are better options, but the idea here is that this item should be viable for 'melee' DPS champion, for example, Shyvanna, Nocture, or Xin Zhao. Hence making the passive longer so they can make the most out of it.
Fourth, Lord Van Damm's Pillager is a good item, but it doesn't attempt to fill the hole that Ghostblade fails to fill. You want another AD caster item, and that's perfectly fine, but that in of itself doesn't relate to anything about Ghostblade. Also, there is no need to remove ghostblade to add Lord Van Damm's Pillager. Black Clever would be the items that stops that item because of overlapping roles.
Fifth, something that scales with health tends to be for tanky bursier item. I can probably tell you right now, based on Ghostblade current stats, it will never promote that style due to it's three synergizing stats that requires more of the other stats to be useful. Unless you just want to make the item overpower in by itself.
And my final comment for the person who made the first post, you underestimate the usefulness of lower cooldown and longer duration. The ability to have it up for any battle should grant more usage overall, and the item idea that I would push for would be more for sticking to the target over anything else. But maybe the movement speed nerf is unjust, but this is all theory crafting so i really can't refute it or not. I was just justifying through the passive of free gold, more AD, lower cooldown, and longer duration. I think it balance decently.
Guess I'll have to log in to keep reading this thread.
If you excuse me, I think that each item is made to fulfill a different role. You build a Phantom Dancer on a carry because it gives all the stats that you want for him/her, the same way that, as you stated, a tanky DPS would build an item that gives more stats as the character loses HP. Brutalizer is actually meant for AD casters because of a good reason: It gives them all that they want, just like a PD does for a carry: AD, ArPen they tend to lack because of AD runes instead of ArPen, and CDR so they can spam more freely their skills. If I had to compare it with anything, I think it would be for AD casters the same as a Zeal is for carries. The only insight that Riot throws here by adding crit chance and a carry active is just that they don't really know what they're doing. And PERSONALLY, it wouldn't be the first time that they show how much they don't know to overhaul some things.
Regardless of my opinion, it's funny, because The Black Cleaver was a pretty good item on carries and bruisers, just like one of those that you've mentioned (I pretty much know that it was great on Shyvana, I don't know about Noct or Xin because I don't play with them, but I've seen a lot of Xins building the old one), but it got turned into an AD caster item when there was no need for that, it even builds from the Brutalizer now. So, turning Youmuu's into something that AD casters can make use of, when it actually builds from the Brutalizer too, makes sense, but I know it would be hard to find a good way to. Like what? Switching the active into a Spellvamp active? Or a CDR active?
Of course an item doesn't has to be limited to a concrete role, and you have a point there when you say that people begins to pick an item when it is viable. So, OK, I'll throw my opinions and points of view away, and I'll try to help here by just trying to make an all-good item, if that's what you want. As for that, I understand that you may not like my other suggestions, but I still think that the not-so-permanent AS (Combined with the low AD, of course) is the real problem here. What if the Ghostblade instead gave you AS based on how much distance have you traveled by? Like, a charge system that works like the Statikk Shiv's one, just that it doesn't needs a specifical amount to get the boost, instead, when you begin attacking, the boost "solidifies" and gives you an AS amount, based on the current charge for 4~6 seconds, then it restarts. Of course there should be a cap for that boost. Furthermore, it could stack with the MS active, so if you travel faster, you get a bonus charge or sort. One way or another, if you don't want to turn it into an AD caster item, the AS must be more consistant than it is right now.
Even if you disagree with me, or you just don't like my suggestions, don't fear that any change could be too good or not. This item is just terribad, as I said, and as you may've seen ingame, nobody actually builds it when they can choose a Last Whisper or The Black Cleaver in the shop (Or even Lord Van Damm's in Twisted Treeline), so a "too good" idea could just make it good enough, not too good.
Brutalizer stats it provide does not limit itself to AD caster. AD Melee DPS champion uses those stats as well and strongerly benefits from them. Zin, Shyvanna, Nocture, Fiora can use it just as fine as AD casters because just like them, they also use abilities and are actually very depeneded on those skill to be useful. Granted, attack speed and critical chance is still needed, but the upgrade just happens to provide, so this item provides a lot of stuff that is needed.
I missed the old Black Clever now and I did love to build it for my Melee champions, but for ranged, it always ended up being the worster item to grab. But it's now pointless to complain because the change has already happened and I doubt there will be a revert with an item this good. Nerfs and lots of balances changes, maybe, but no revert back to it's orignial form. This also includes that no new item will be made to have the same effect but with different stats.
Also, I don't see why turning Ghostblade into another AD caster item makes any sense. They would share a lot of similar stats and role (AD, armor pen, cooldown), since BC already provides everything besides spell vamp. Two, that limits build choice if one item path grants everything one class needs.
But to point, how would the distance travel even work. You're always be moving before, during, and after a fight, so wouldn't that just charge up to max constantly, which them would make the entire mechanic seem pointless. Unless the vaule is some asburb number, it would kind of make the item awarkward with no placement. Then it would also just incentive players to not engange untill it's fully charge (since it's so easy to charge to begin with) before abusing it.
Saying an item is terribad seems really closedminded. Obviously it will not compete for the 'most armor pen' item in the game, but it does provide a very strong movement speed boost and attack speed boost that neither items provide. It's one item that provides a lot of usefulness that usually takes champions mutlipe items to fill. With a few buffs, it can easily be a viable item since there are a class of champion that needs all those stats, unlike AP/AS where there are only a few with little incentive to stack both stats at once.
First of all, I'm pretty sure we're spinning around something we're neither of us neglecting. I'm just saying that Brutalizer is obviously made for AD casters just like Zeal is made for carries, and you're saying that just because an item is made for a specific role doesn't means that others can't make use of it. I feel both statements are true, so let's just throw this away, ok?
Secondly, I feel your loss. Just like you, I loved the old one. It's not that I complain hoping for Riot to revert it, or at least settle it in an intermediate point where it's old owners and it's new ones can use it, if I wanted that I would be complaining directly to Riot (Like I've done once or twice). Either if we agree about the old TBC usage or not, what I'm trying to do here is not turning Youmuu's into the old TBC, just make it useful for everyone, not just AD casters, and as I said, imo that goes trhough making the AS more accesible. But if you don't follow me when I say that Youmuu's should be an AD caster, I'll try to explain with some examples, given the fact that I'm not a native and I find hard to explain myself when it comes to complex sentences:
Zeal, a carry item > Phantom Dancer, a carry item.
Phage, a bruiser/AD caster item > Frozen Mallet, a bruiser/AD caster item.
Warden's Mail, a tank item > Randuin's Omen, a tank item.
The Brutalizer, an AD caster item > The Black Cleaver, an AD caster item.
As before, I'm not saying that these can't be used by other characters (Well, the new TBC sorta can't be used in others), but they have the purpose to fulfill primarily an specific role. Youmuu's Ghostblade is built from an AD caster item, but it's purposeless, no AD caster wants AS or crit, and even if it could be useful on carries (Which, if it was, we wouldn't be discussing this), then why make it from an AD caster item? Why not from a Zeal or something more carry-specific? One way or another, even if we want to make it useful for everybody, it needs a primary role to fill, which is hard to find when you realize the fact that it doesn't actually fill anyone.
Now, cutting to my suggestion, you're right that it may incentive players to not engage before it's fully charged, true. But what I meant (And I'm hoping that I didn't explain myself clearly) is that: You run, this item begins to charge, you attack, this item stops charging and your charge is spend for the next 4~6 seconds, then it restarts charging. Maybe it's not the best mechanic for that, tho.
The movement speed is fine, but other items actually provide better attack speed with other, more useful stats. Most carries will get a LW and 2 PD/1 PD+1 Statikk, so it's pointless on them, and then most AD casters will get a LW/TBC and at least one BT, so it's pointless too. What's left? Bruisers? I'm not so good with bruisers than with carries and AD casters, but I can tell you, I don't see this as it is on anyone of my characters, which combined that most people don't use this... Well, at least I get that yeah, it's terribad.
But to your suggestion, yeah, the mechanic is pretty bad in how it function. Unlike Statikk where it can proc multiple times during a fight if the champion actual moves, your suggestion kind of does nothing after the first use in team fights. And seeing how easy it is to stack, the value will kind of have to be set assuming they have the max charges. More or less than, it might as well become an active effect at that because that's what would happen.
Maybe a better suggestion would be to do a reserve mechanic. Let's say out of battle, it charges up really fast and when you engage (or for each basic attack or ability you land), you gain the bonus attack speed and movement speed. ...actually, seems like a bad idea overall but just tossing something out.
But, there is still room for an item like this to exist. For example, let's compare this to PD with Ghostblade:
55% attack speed
30% critical chance
5% movement speed
GhostBlade (with active)
20 armor pentration
15% critical chance
10% cooldown reduction
20% movement speed
40% attack speed
With just a direct comparison with GB and PD, you can easily see that GB has a lot of advantages that PD doesn't have while still providing a lot of the core DPS stats. While the active is on, GB is extremely effective, especially for an item that is cheaper than PD. All you lose for grabbing GB over PD is: 15% AS, 15% Critical chance, But in exchange you get: 15% MS, 30 AD, 10% cooldown, 20 armor pen. These are decent trade-off. The only real problem ,IMO, is that the active effect isn't dependable enough and doesn't last long enough.
Maybe my suggestion to increase AD was a bad choice, maybe the critical chance should have been the target instead. That it would scale way better with other AD items.
You've just said it, the active neither lasts nor is dependable enough. Other items, even if they don't seem that efficent, are at least more consistent.
About the crit: Most carries already get enough crit chance, 25% from Infinity Edge, +30% from Phantom Dancer, +20~30% from Statikk Shiv/second Phantom Dancer. 75~85% crit chance is very good already, and some carries can even boost it (Ashe's and Trynd's passives, per example). I don't think that your AD increase was a bad idea, actually I feel that this should get +10 extra AD (Up to 40). And about my previous suggestion, ok, let's discard that mechanism. Maybe some scale for the AS? Like, "per each 5.5 AD you get +1% AS", or "per each 1% crit chance, you gain +0.4% AS"? Or maybe some other stat...
I know that's the problem, hence, i believe if they just made it just cost efficent outside of the active, and lower the cooldown and increase duration, the item would actually be really good. It would basically replace PD for melee champions because it would just be overall better.
well. the ideal i was trying to reach was that it would replace either PD or statikk in a build, not be built along side of it. Hence, I rather now increase the critical chance over AD since you can grab a lot of AD through IE, BT, or LW. Ghostblade still would not be an item rushed first, but it would make a strong second or third rush, especially with avarice blade being a component to help get more gold quicker. So with IE and GB, you can have 50% critical chance. Seems strong and work well with each other and come at a somewhat cheaper cost.
For a stat converter. Numbers can be tweaked and everything, but overall, I don't like seeing stat converters on the item. Just a personal hate of mine. I got nothing against it.
I feel like this item should only be allowed to be brought by melee champions so there is no fear that range champions would abuse it.
The ArPen and Crit is really the only thing that Youmuu's gives that Zephyr doesn't (which is its closest competition on melee AAers). I personally think the item should try to play to this niche, perhaps giving some of those stats on activation in addition to AS and Move speed
I think Zephyr and Youmuu's ought to just be one item. Make Yomuu's melee exclusive with tenacity and increased crit as ClaRis suggested. The intended result is an item that makes melee carries like Fiora, Yi and Tryndamere viable. The low AD, crit, and AS make it unattractive to AD casters, while the melee exclusivity stops ranged carries from using it. Fiora/ Yi/ Tryndamere / Gangplank all have AD steroids so they wouldn't mind the low AD.
If this seems overpowered, you could even lower or remove the AD and CDR parts by making it build out of something other than Brutalizer. However as a Fiora player, I do appreciate the CDR to lower Fiora's long ultimate cooldown.
This item's stats are too scattered, this is actually bad on full on damage dealers as it will result in bad synergy and ultimate a lower dps late game. This is the same reason why tri force is not a mainstream item for adc and rather more of a brusier item. This will lead to the item being good in two situations, rushed by damage dealers (20 arm pen in lane, pretty much true damage on sona) or being used by brusiers as the only damage item. However, both of these purposes are fucked up by the averice blade. Most brusiers cant use the 15% crit and damage dealers pretty much want to keep the averice blade for as long as possible. My suggestion will be a recipe change and remove the crit (personally i feel like crit isnt a good stat until mid-late game) while increasing the ad from the item (replace the averice blade with a pickaxe)
due to all the stats of attack speed, movement speed, cooldown reduction, and armor penetration, it should never be considered as a pure damage item. But it does actually make a strong secondary item after you grab item like IE or BT to go along with it.
All those stats provided makes IE and BT so much better. So, though it is scattered, it does work well with each other, it just need a core item to go along with it.
And to your suggestion, I see that you want another bruiser item, but they already have Black Clever and what you're suggesting will just overlap with that item. What Ghostblade is trying to fulfill is something not designed for the typical AD caster, but more for those that are extremely dependent on auto-attacks, like Fiora or Gankplank.
I agree with the whole idea of all gps items to scale into strong late game items. Executioner's is a good example of doing it wrong. How about adding ignore collision as a part of the active? It's 'Ghost'blade for a reason. Helps you stick to your target and rack up that duration.
^ that sounds like a good idea, actually. What do you think of adding the "greivous wound" effect to the item? Get rid of Executioner's Calling? The stats are very similiar, but Executioner is really expensive for what it does. Or would that be overkill?
I agree with the whole idea of putting ignore unit collision on the active and maybe shift some of the stats from the active over to the passive, because as it is right now Ghostblade is one of the most cost effective item when activated and buffing its passive might make it too good.