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This condenses the mess somewhat, but also makes calculations a bit easier: if you want to calculate the damage value within a certain level bracket, you look at the previous bracket, which gives the maximum value within that bracket, and add the new value times the remaining amount of levels. For example, suppose you want to know how much damage {{ai|Power Chord|Sona}} deals at level 16. 16 is within the 15-18 bracket, i.e. the last one, so you look at the previous bracket, which says the passive's damage at level 14 is 132. To this, you simply add 15 twice, and get 162. --[[User:Willbachbakal|Willbachbakal]] ([[User talk:Willbachbakal|talk]]) 00:57, January 2, 2014 (UTC)
 
This condenses the mess somewhat, but also makes calculations a bit easier: if you want to calculate the damage value within a certain level bracket, you look at the previous bracket, which gives the maximum value within that bracket, and add the new value times the remaining amount of levels. For example, suppose you want to know how much damage {{ai|Power Chord|Sona}} deals at level 16. 16 is within the 15-18 bracket, i.e. the last one, so you look at the previous bracket, which says the passive's damage at level 14 is 132. To this, you simply add 15 twice, and get 162. --[[User:Willbachbakal|Willbachbakal]] ([[User talk:Willbachbakal|talk]]) 00:57, January 2, 2014 (UTC)
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Not sure if I'm a fan of that method because what it does is hide the base damage away in a tooltip, and misleads forces people to recalculate damage only after looking at th tooltip. You're making readers work for their information, essentially. I'm not sure if visitors using android devices can even read tooltips as well. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb1366976924/common/avatars/thumb/e/ee/1445357.png/20px-1445357.png [[User:LionsLight|LionsLight]]<sub>([[User_talk:LionsLight|talk]])</sub> 01:16, January 2, 2014 (UTC)

Revision as of 01:16, January 2, 2014

Forums: Index > League of Legends Wiki Issues > Non-Linear Scalings
Note: This topic has been unedited for 2373 days. It is considered archived – the discussion is over. Do not add to unless it really needs a response.

The Problem

There needs to be some kind of an update to how we describe non-linear passives on champions. More specifically, this applies to Diana OriginalSquare Diana, Sona OriginalSquare Sona, Warwick OriginalSquare Warwick and Ziggs OriginalSquare Ziggs's articles, where their passives all have damage that scales non-linearly with level, i.e. the formula cannot be resumed to a simple X + Y per level. This has the unfortunate consequence of leaving instead a long string of numbers, which is ugly and unhelpful in conveying how the ability evolves over time. Consider the following:

Eternal Thirst

Each of Warwick's autoattacks deal Template:Pp18 additional magic damage and heal him for the same amount. Each successive attack against the same target will stack this amount of healing and damage up to a maximum of 3 stacks. The stacks remain for 4 seconds.

Info
Notes
  • No additional details.

The numbers alone take up an entire line, about a third of the ability's description. What the list should be telling us is that the damage gain per level rises at level 9 from 0.5 per level to 1 per level, but this is not immediately visible. It's also hard to see at a glance that the gain per level only changes once: Diana OriginalSquare Diana's passive, Moonsilver Blade Moonsilver Blade, changes scaling four times, Sona OriginalSquare Sona's four times as well, and Ziggs OriginalSquare Ziggs's three times, all at different levels. Despite having the numbers spread out on a list, it's hard to see how the passive increases in power.

There was a change to this format I first saw on Ziggs OriginalSquare Ziggs's article, which I then copied to the others. On Warwick OriginalSquare Warwick, it gave this:

Eternal Thirst

Each of Warwick's autoattacks deal 2.5 + (0.5 / 1 (based on level) at each level) additional magic damage and heal him for the same amount. Each successive attack against the same target will stack this amount of healing and damage up to a maximum of 3 stacks. The stacks remain for 4 seconds.

Info
Notes
  • No additional details.

This shortens the formula quite a bit, but is not actually a good solution either. The problem with this kind of indication is that it's misleading: people who don't know that the first value applies to all levels from 1 to 9 and the second value to levels 10 to 18 might make the wrong calculation on the passive's damage, as there is no indication to the proper formula.

Possible Solution

I think there should be a way to combine the conciseness of the second formula with the exhaustiveness of the first. There are a few ways this could be improved on:

  1. Clarify in the tooltip which values apply to which values (i.e. "Value applies at levels X through Y" instead of just "X-Y").
  2. Either give the full list of values under "at each level", or:
  3. Give the value at the highest level in each bracket in each tooltip (i.e. "Value applies at levels X through Y, value at level Y is Z"), and create a tooltip under "at each level" indicating the values at level 1 and level 18.

These changes should clarify to newcomers how the nonlinear scaling formula, and indicating the values at the endpoints in the tooltips would make calculations far easier. I am personally more in favor of option 3 over option 2, as the end value makes it easier to calculate the scaling in the next bracket, whereas the indication of the damage's endpoint values would give an idea of how powerful the ability is. To go back to Warwick OriginalSquare Warwick, an example of options 1 and 3 combined would be the following:

Eternal Thirst

Each of Warwick's autoattacks deal 2.5 + (0.5 / 1 at each level) additional magic damage and heal him for the same amount. Each successive attack against the same target will stack this amount of healing and damage up to a maximum of 3 stacks. The stacks remain for 4 seconds.

Info
Notes
  • No additional details.

What are your thoughts?

Discussion

Iirc, Sona being one of the most notable offenders, regressing the values into a formula sometimes makes it extremely messy. i.e. Power Chord Power Chord's damage: 6 / 3 / 7 / -12 / -78 (based on level) + (7 / 8 / 9 / 10 / 15 (based on level) x Level) (+ 20% AP)

I'd say use rule of thumb on a case by case basis to determine if the damage is suitable to be presented as values by itself, or if it can be regressed neatly. 20px-1445357.png LionsLight(talk) 00:38, January 2, 2014 (UTC)

That's actually the wrong formula. :P The formula I mentioned above maintains the base at the same value, but indicates the change per level as dependent on the level bracket itself. In this manner, the base amount doesn't have to be readjusted all the time, particularly as it would have to be readjusted every level as the gain per level increases. For Sona the non-linear scaling formula gives the following:
Power Chord

After 3 ability casts, Sona's next basic attack will deal 6 + (7 / 8 / 9 / 10 / 15 at each level) (+ 20% AP) bonus magic damage, with an additional effect depending on the last basic ability cast.

Info
Notes
  • No additional details.

This condenses the mess somewhat, but also makes calculations a bit easier: if you want to calculate the damage value within a certain level bracket, you look at the previous bracket, which gives the maximum value within that bracket, and add the new value times the remaining amount of levels. For example, suppose you want to know how much damage Power Chord Power Chord deals at level 16. 16 is within the 15-18 bracket, i.e. the last one, so you look at the previous bracket, which says the passive's damage at level 14 is 132. To this, you simply add 15 twice, and get 162. --Willbachbakal (talk) 00:57, January 2, 2014 (UTC)

Not sure if I'm a fan of that method because what it does is hide the base damage away in a tooltip, and misleads forces people to recalculate damage only after looking at th tooltip. You're making readers work for their information, essentially. I'm not sure if visitors using android devices can even read tooltips as well. 20px-1445357.png LionsLight(talk) 01:16, January 2, 2014 (UTC)

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