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However, I am against getting rid of them. For whatever reason there are a ton of them. and it brings traffic and activity to the Wikia. Activity is always good even if it is on something that is as much a waste of space as Custom Champion ideas. So I say keep them. My only request would be to change their page types so that they can't be confused with actual champions, nor are they grouped with blogs which may (or most likely may not) have a meaningful discussion on the current game. [[User:Asperon Thorn|Asperon Thorn]] ([[User talk:Asperon Thorn|talk]]) 21:45, December 13, 2013 (UTC)
 
However, I am against getting rid of them. For whatever reason there are a ton of them. and it brings traffic and activity to the Wikia. Activity is always good even if it is on something that is as much a waste of space as Custom Champion ideas. So I say keep them. My only request would be to change their page types so that they can't be confused with actual champions, nor are they grouped with blogs which may (or most likely may not) have a meaningful discussion on the current game. [[User:Asperon Thorn|Asperon Thorn]] ([[User talk:Asperon Thorn|talk]]) 21:45, December 13, 2013 (UTC)
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:Visitor count should never be a factor in discussion as
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:# The wiki on its own is not-for-profit. We as editors should not be concerned about ad revenue we do not receive.
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:# Unless we can reliably translate that visitor count to editorship, all its doing is drawing visitors to a non-encyclopedic portion of the wiki.
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:# The merits of high viewership is not recognized as a measure of quality for articles. That is wikis do not have view counts on pages.
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:On an unrelated note, this, except for the last point, also applies to comments. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb1366976924/common/avatars/thumb/e/ee/1445357.png/20px-1445357.png [[User:LionsLight|LionsLight]]<sub>([[User_talk:LionsLight|talk]])</sub> 01:42, December 16, 2013 (UTC)

Revision as of 01:42, December 16, 2013

Forums: Index > League of Legends Wiki Issues > Ban and Delete all custom champions
Note: This topic has been unedited for 2391 days. It is considered archived – the discussion is over. Do not add to unless it really needs a response.

This took me a long while to think of, and I now have a decision.

Unlike general blog posts (GBP hencceforth) which actually spawn meaningful discussion for this otherwise static wiki and can actually be quality controlled, custom champion concepts (CCC henceforth) hardly bring any beneficial discussions to readers/wikians, doesn't really have anything to do with the league bar kit rulings, and you cannot remove a horribly designed/formatted concept unless it violates the rules, something you can do on GBP and mainspace articles.

My suggestion here is to perform a total cleanup and delete all CCC (that includes mine, just saying) and from this point onwards prohibit any creation of future CCC. Champion rework discussions could be exempted from this rule, as they are about existing champions in the first place.

P.S. Don't give a "we don't have enough staff" or "we're too lazy to delete all of them" reason to not implement this ban, I can and will eventually delete everything if it's approved. Mineko Charat Lucky (talk) 13:42, December 12, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

I like it. — TehAnonymous Avatar TehAnonymous <3 14:51, December 12, 2013 (UTC)

I think as an alternative to the blogspam that happens with custom champions, as they are, all users should be allowed to make their custom champ concepts as sandbox/personal pages under their own username (like User:NeonSpotlight/Soandso) and maybe make the personal file/month limit stricter if that's also seen to be a problem. Comments and whatnot could be made via a discussion section on the page or on a subpage.  Also, if we were to delete all CCCs we'd have to give people warning and a certain amount of time to save their concepts somewhere else.  NeonSpotlight  Talk  Contribs  15:07, December 12, 2013 (UTC)


As a user who makes a lot of custom champions, I might be biased against this, but I don't think this is the way to go. The two main problems with custom creations are the unfinished champion template spam, and the space taken up by custom creation blog posts to the detriment of general interest blogs (i.e. news and/or discussion of actual LoL-related features). The "custom champion" tag is ineffective at providing a separation, as you likely already know from having to suffer going through every new blog entry to remind people to add said tag. I propose the following:

  • Flag the spammy CCCs (or CCs, since not all custom creation blog posts revolve around champions) and delete them. Any user should be able to flag a blog post so that it gets verified.
  • If possible, create a separate space for custom creations that does not interfere in any way with blog posts. This space would have to be especially clear and visible to new users, to avoid the current stream of half-baked champion templates. After that, either move all existing CCs to that space with the use of a bot, or delete all existing CC blog posts after a series of warnings, as NeonSpotlight suggested.

The thing is, even if you were to delete all current CCCs, that would not stop a lot of users (particularly newcomers) from coming up with their own. Moreover, despite the vast amount of spammy, low-quality posts, there are quite a few well-made concepts, and a community behind them that enjoys viewing and commenting on them. Moving CCs an CCCs to a new space within the wiki would prevent them from overwhelming other blog posts, and the flag mechanic would provide a better form of quality control.

P.S.: Not all GBPs are that conducive to good discussion either. A large portion of them are rants or opinion posts that don't ask for a response.--Willbachbakal (talk) 17:15, December 12, 2013 (UTC)

"spammy" is subjective. For example, compare psy's opinions are on what defines a blog post to... anyone else's. Also, some past discussions related to this topic: Forum:Wiki_Review_5#User-generated_content Forum:Disabling_blogsTehAnonymous Avatar TehAnonymous <3 18:42, December 12, 2013 (UTC)
The consensus on both pages was that user-generated content should stay. Furthermore, the problem raised in both cases was that said content could be detracting from the mainspace, which is not the case here: the quality level of the mainspace has been going up, not down, particularly with the addition of ability detail templates and the cleaning up of champion pages. The other issue here is that banning custom creation posts wouldn't push the creators towards the mainspace, it'd just turn them away from the wiki. Granted, the situation as it stands isn't peachy, but banning a popular activity (which, despite its frequent lapses in quality, brings people regularly to the wiki) has never solved and will not solve the matter at hand, and may in fact make things worse. --Willbachbakal (talk) 04:29, December 13, 2013 (UTC)

This is wiki about League of Legends, not about 'League of Legends - the way I would do it'. Its great that people have ideas but wiki is hardly the place for them as wikis job is to represent facts about the game and additional information that the game is missing - at least that is how I see (any) wiki. The games own forums have dedicated sections for fan work and ideas where they can be represented and with a correct audience. I don't see any problem deleting them outright. They are not in the game and this wiki is about the game thus irrelevant and should be removed. BlackSmith (talk) 02:31, December 13, 2013 (UTC)

You are conflating the wiki mainspace and the blog section: the mainspace is for documentation, blogs are for the userbase to post on topics related to the game, which don't have to be factual. In the LoL Wiki's case, custom posts are prominent enough to overshadow other blog posts, which is where the problem arises. Were your line of argumentation to be followed, though, there would be no blogs at all, considering their content is "not in the game". --Willbachbakal (talk) 04:22, December 13, 2013 (UTC)

I don't dislike the idea of allowing blogs on this wiki, however custom champions on this wiki over last year has been resembling more and more like a cut-and-paste template with someone picking random numbers on their OC and visiting google images or the Dota wiki for icons. The fact we allow with no restrictions, custom champions on blogspace promotes lazy, low quality content. 20px-1445357.png LionsLight(talk) 03:52, December 13, 2013 (UTC)

There are certain restrictions (cut-and-paste templates aren't allowed, and custom champion posts need to be tagged as such), but the problem is that they're poorly communicated and frequently ignored or forgotten. Having a separate, dedicated section for these, with stricter and more visible rules to ensure quality control, would help a lot towards cleaning up the current mess. --Willbachbakal (talk) 04:22, December 13, 2013 (UTC)

While I wouldn't approve of completely forbidding Custom Champion Concepts, I think restricting them to a user's individual sandbox might be an acceptable alternative, if action is to be taken at all. And yes, I thinksome rules and restrictions should be enforced. --Dragonzzilla (talk) 02:45, December 13, 2013 (UTC)

I'm thinking nearly exactly what BlackSmith is thinking. Additionally, as I have said before, and maybe Will missed it, but the quality of blog posts can be easily monitored and deleted if it is not up to par.

Do note that this discussion is about banning CCCs from blog space, which not only makes my job easier, gives viewers less of an eyesore, frees up the extra slot for something else, and a lot of old personal images can be removed. If you want to Sandbox your champions, then show it to your friends later, feel free to do so. Mineko Charat Lucky (talk) 13:47, December 13, 2013 (UTC)

That's the thing, though: a lot of people who post these CCCs want the rest of the wiki to see them, so restricting the exposure they get would just lead to them circumventing the rules. I definitely agree that they shouldn't be on the blog space, since they don't fit there, but they need a separate space where people can still see them. I'm not entirely familiar with CSS, but wouldn't it be possible to create an additional section on the dashboard, and give users the option to enable/disable all posts related to that section? That way, people who don't want to face a daily barrage of custom creation posts wouldn't have to. The issue on quality control seems more bureaucratic than anything else: clearly, if there are no rules against poorly made CCCs, the appropriate restrictions should be added to delete the spam. Again, this would work better if CCCs were in a dedicated section of their own, with their own set of rules. Allowing users to flag terrible posts would also make your job easier. --Willbachbakal (talk) 17:01, December 13, 2013 (UTC)

I hate them. For all the reason's stated. I hate that they come up when I look for new blog entries. I don't think any of them are good and most of them are outright garbage. I'd even group custom reworks in this category. "Nidalee needs a rework these are my ideas." I don't care nor want to see what you think. (Royal "you")

However, I am against getting rid of them. For whatever reason there are a ton of them. and it brings traffic and activity to the Wikia. Activity is always good even if it is on something that is as much a waste of space as Custom Champion ideas. So I say keep them. My only request would be to change their page types so that they can't be confused with actual champions, nor are they grouped with blogs which may (or most likely may not) have a meaningful discussion on the current game. Asperon Thorn (talk) 21:45, December 13, 2013 (UTC)

Visitor count should never be a factor in discussion as
  1. The wiki on its own is not-for-profit. We as editors should not be concerned about ad revenue we do not receive.
  2. Unless we can reliably translate that visitor count to editorship, all its doing is drawing visitors to a non-encyclopedic portion of the wiki.
  3. The merits of high viewership is not recognized as a measure of quality for articles. That is wikis do not have view counts on pages.
On an unrelated note, this, except for the last point, also applies to comments. 20px-1445357.png LionsLight(talk) 01:42, December 16, 2013 (UTC)
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