I'd say if it was pick rate then you could just dismiss it with your whole little "flavour of the month" cuteness thing but win rates and "flavor" have nothing to do with eachother. Morg doesn't win more games than other supports because she's more popular, she wins more games because she's performing stronger than they are. To think of it as anything else is just silly.

Sorry to butt in, I just found this little back and forth you guys having been doing somewhat... interesting but that logical fallacy was just too much for me.

How is it a fallacy? If Morgana is popular people play her more, she sees more games, people will try to supplement her weakness and thus the knowledge of playing her will more easily accessible. Thus people will do well with her because many people try to master her, when a counter comes along and wrecks her, people will move to that one and then supplement that champions weaknesses, who will then be destoryed by another counter and so and so forth.

Its a logical system where things that where considered weak and now strong, simply because of probability of what it will play against. Its pretty much like starcraft. Someone masses zerglings, you mass marines, they mass rouchs, you mass marauders ect. But its predicting what they choose. Not 'who is currently strongest.'

Remember when AD casters assassins were going mid? Then items got nerfed and people found counters and then people either tried to fix the holes or like most people moved on. If Morgana proves to be so popular and such a 'go-to' pick then she will most likely get nerfed just like every other champion.

Also take into account that this is "support Morgana" we are talking about and not "AP mid Morgana". Those stats prove nothing more than she is picked a lot and it surely doesn't say anything about her position, and while she appears good in platinum she is hardly played in platinum, in diomond she has a half win rate. With gold only being slightly higher in win rate. She is also shown as being hardly picked.

If anything this proves that she is unpopular and only choosen under certain conditions. 

And yes I did read the stats, I always used the stats to make my own point. Which is backed up by the same thing you claim helps your arugment.

Thus, because she isn't choosen we can say she is obviously not built for our current meta. Which still proves my point either way. It is highly unlikely that support Morgana got those win-rates when much more useful builds exist.

If you select Morgana's profile it tells you what items she's purchasing, including the top competitive builds. Zhonya's Hourglass is a staple, but the rest of the build varies: items such as Rod of Ages, Queen's Embrace, Ruby Sightstone, Abyssal Scepter, Liandry's, Rylai's... generic AP+Health, AP+Resist and Support+Health items.

As you've said, being a support is as much about the mindset that it is about the champion. There is a difference between Morgana support and Morgana mage-bot. It's about how you play. How you focus your effort. She is an amazing support. Incidentally, she also counters Taric.

Being underplayed still shows lack of usability. It also does not account for her allies, if she is fed of course she could afford these items, she could also afford to built as a proper mage.

If my statistics showed I won more games with Yorick when I built a Phage it wouldn't mean the build won me the game, if anything it could simply be me being fed and being able to purchase the item. Thus her win rate with this build could also be due to the combination of allies. Just because a build works for a while doesn't mean it will stay that way or if it is even good. It just shows she happened to purchase those items while winning.

Her win rate shows there is no lack of usability. Being underplayed could show a lack of understanding of how to play against her, but clearly her usability isn't an issue.

It shows she is used in niche situations because she is picked less. Thus she is not as adaptable or useful as other supports or mages to be picked constantly. Being unpicked also means people lack profiling on the champion playing against her, if she was played more then people could easily find counters to her.

My argument still stands.

Patch	Thresh	Leona	Morgana
V4.3	41% pick, 49% win	39% pick, 53% win	21% pick (9th), 52% win
V4.4	38% pick, 49% win	36% pick, 52% win	25% pick (6th), 53% win
V4.5	37% pick, 45% win	32% pick, 52% win	29% pick (4th), 49% win
V4.6.0.193	37% pick, 48% win	33% pick, 51% win	32% pick (4th), 50% win
V4.6.0.201	36% pick, 49% win	28% pick, 53% win	31% pick (3rd), 52% win
V4.6.0.204	36% pick, 50% win	35% pick, 51% win	33% pick (4th), 54% win

That's funny. She's such a niche pick that she's been one of the most played champions in Ranked 5v5 for the past 3 months. It makes sense that she is popular right now, because she naturally counters Leona and Thresh (or, she at very minimum mitigates a lot of their threat and thus allows her lane partner to be more comfortable in-lane). Her popularity in V4.2 was almost non-existent, so I would assume that she was shown off in a tournament - although I was playing her long before then.

7 out of the last 10 Ranked Solo Queue games played with her were as a support (based on item purchases and creep score). The remaining 3 all had support scores (few-to-no kills and high assists), but only two of those were taking creeps (so the other one was either playing mage-bot).

P.S. Through some miscommunication, I ended up playing bot-lane Vel'Koz yesterday. I'd like to think I was a support and not a mage-thats-pretending. My play style, skill order and build were all adjusted. I bought DFG to compliment our magic-damage heavy team, and it's not something I would have purchases as a mage. I'm not saying Vel'Koz is a support, but it's as much about play style as it is a champion.

Its flavour of the month then like before. 

Also seeing you bounce from one set of numbers on one site to make one point and then a completely different site to make another doesn't really make your argument look better. Especially with the difference in data, if you don't believe one of them to have the right data then don't waste my time showing it to me.

When you have something specific you can stick to call me, because I'd rather not play in some candy store.

Every site Emptylord is referencing pulls data directly from League of Legends. He also selected sites consistently based on the data he was presenting to you, and the information he's giving you doesn't contradict itself. You're acting on bad faith here, particularly as you yourself have so far not backed up any of your statements with facts.

You're also derailing the discussion, and despite all your posts haven't generally contributed much. Instead, you've turned this thread into a personal argument, with you at the center of attention. You ought to move this to your talk page, or create a new thread based on the subject you actually want to talk about. The thread here's supposed to be about Syndra: the last time she was mentioned was twelve posts ago.

Not to mention it's a 2 year old post in an "archived" section. I should've closed/deleted this derail many posts ago but watching CreepyYellowDuck back himself into a corner was just too, idk... enjoyable, in a way, I don't get to read many "debates" about the game anymore. Oh well, as per Willbach, if you guys have anything further to say please take it to message walls or make a new thread on the active forum about this topic.