Talk:Riven/@comment-33536623-20140127122040/@comment-7434112-20140131115834

Counters.. I think Garen (silence is pretty good against AD casters since they do need their abilites to deal a majority of their damage  ), Renekton (might have to wait and see after the changes Riot plans for him), Jayce and Kennen (they have the range advantage as well as the ability to disengage with Jayce's E and Kennen's stun + E), Zed (if you can use your shadows to juke her skills effectively while dealing damage) Jax (can win trades around lvl 11 and once he gets some items) and Nasus (if he gets a small lead, he can turn it into a stack lane).

Counter itemisation would be health and armor, Randuin's Omen being one of my favourites on most champs, Forzen Heart on those that need mana, Sunfire's cape for better pushing, Guardian Angel for AD carries and casters and Zhonya's Hourglass for AP carries (pretty much a core for many but just thoght i'd put it out there). Particular case would be Warmog's for Mundo because of how he benefits from health and all and Thronmail for something like a melee ADC in the enemy team (probably a rare case with something like Tryndamere top and Riven mid).

Umm, I went off topic to flame you (StarSaviour)? Lol. You'd always pick on small mistakes in spellings and highlight it and you expect me to not respond back? And at later posts you replied at the end in such a condescending manner... You're continually trying to portray yourself as the victim but you're the one who usually starts the flaming. Finally, when 2 people come at you for a particular reason, there MIGHT just be a problem in your attitude you should look into.

Another note, theorycrafting and anecdotal evidence both lack in some ways, theorycrafting may lack in many other variables (winions, masteries like spell weaving and blade weaving for Riven and Perseverance for Garen, rune preferences, I usually go for scaling MR in blues rather than CDR because there are usually AP carries in games, etc) as well as portraying a single situation among many possible ones. On the other hand anecdotal evidence lacks in knowledge of both player's skills with the champions at hand. Simply telling that one is better than the other is wrong.

An honest question, have you (StarSaviour) played the matchup? I'm asking for your own views on it, not the math but from your personal experience.

'''"If Garen just runs "high armor/hp items" he's not going to be doing considerable damage. The base scalings on his spin2win is 120 dmg/sec at max rank. Thebase armor for most champions seems to be around 75 by lvl 18. This means that a Garen who runs "high armor/hp items" will do approximately 70 dmg/sec for a whopping 210'ish damage after armor and the full 3 seconds of spinning." ''': It also has the AD scaling with his base AD, so before armor the damage would be 120 + 118 x 1.1 dmg/sec for ~250 damage/sec and ~750 in 3 secs. After armor (from your viewpoint), it'd be 142 dmg/sec for a total of 426 in total, not that bad for a full tank.

"Do you honestly think it's a lot of fun to talk with someone like yourself? You make the effort to reply to everything they say only for them to just blow you off and flame you instead.

Have you ever considered that maybe you could be wrong?" : This made me chuckle a bit. From every mistake i've pointed out in your previous statements on other threads, you've only accepted one when I showed you definitive proof which you couldn't refute at all. Any others were ignored and flamed at later parts of your comment.