Talk:Alistar/@comment-3529242-20161024121615/@comment-11013454-20161024193730

well, Lets look at it objectively.

Trample is likely still going to be the last skill to max for most people. Can't say for sure but for most people it probably will be, because people will want to get the cooldown for his Q and W low as fast as possible for the immediate CC and higher damage numbers these skills naturally have. for your fastest. Which means for most of the game the idea of 200+40%ap for 90mana is mostly irrelivant unless you're getting into deep late game. (Not even counting the 220 extra damage you will add on with the stun at this point to a target)

Assuming trample stays at lvl 1 for most of the game, it will be a 50 mana 5 second aoe around him that needs 2.5 seconds worth of procs near any enemy champion (Which means it's probably going to be an almost garenteed trigger in teamfights if he's in the middle) to get the stun to do the damage (5 second skill, damage every 0.5 seconds). Pulverize will lock them down for 1 second and in the utmost ideal situation you can knock someone backward into your team to keep them near. Anyone who doesn't flash away or have an escape (Which is most adcs not counting the really slippy ones like vayne) is most likely going to cause your trample to eventually trigger, if not the adc then the support that's charging in to try and peel. It's also key to keep in mind that trample's stun hit damage scales with his level, not the level of the skill so even if we leave it at lvl 1, the stun hit damage is going to increase (not by heaps but its' still gonna increase). Alistar's a support tank. Trample is likley going to give him more damage than he had before when he needs it in teamfights(since it now scales better with AP), but definetally isn't supposed to have alot of it lying around.

With the range. Alistar's trample has always shared it's range with Rammus's ult. 300. Have you seen Rammus's ult range? If he stands in the middle of a lane you would need to be on the edges of each side to not get in the crossfire. You couldn't really see it before because his current trample doesn't really have an indicator of how far it's going, and doesn't produce high enough damage on its own for you to really notice. Giving it a range that out ranges RAMMUS'S ULT sounds a bit unfair, even though rammus's does more damage. Rammus has more ways to keep you inside of his tremors, but that's why Trample has a stun. Get in there, get a stack to punch them down, make them feel the rest of his trample. Design wise it's pretty sound. It does decent Aoe for a while, it has HARD built into it from lvl 1 and it gives you something focus on while your out engaging, while also giving the enemy some counterplay with the time period. You shouldn't really be going for getting 2 procs of stun from trample. You just need one, so that the rest of your team can keep smashing their face in.

Quite frankly, if it WAS stronger alistar  would start slotting into other picks, which isn't what swtiches of power like these are made for. People would get edgy with jungle builds and so on. Then they'll nerf him, then he'll underperform and bla bla bla.

But this is all high speculation. The numbers could be low. But do you acutally need THAT much higher damage numbers out of alistar? If you want to put it into perspective. MOrgana's W sorta does the same 5 second thing. But her's is directly designed for damage. It does more damage the les HP you have, it costs way more mana, hast a shorter cooldown and you can't move it once it's down. Meanhing she has to lock you down preemtively to get the full value while alistar can smack during the middle of his to keep you there.

See what I mean? On paper it already looks 'pretty fair'. Super charging it when it doesn't neccesarily need to be is were we start creeping