Talk:Jarvan IV/@comment-15562896-20120531004807/@comment-4677525-20120601035044

Sigh, another wall of text (primarily a response to Vahldeer but also me weighing in on the issue of the state of Jungle Jarv). Read at your own risk :P

Udyr, Shyvana and Lee Sin can out-duel Jarvan in the jungle, that is true. But ALL of them have to work so much harder to cause the same level of disruption that J4 can pull off in team fights. Also, I would argue that J4's ganks are more consistent than these guys (both pre and post-level 6), especially Shyvana who has mediocre ganks unless she is packing exhaust.

Is he vulnerable to being counterjungled by these champions (Shyvana, Udyr and Lee)? Definitely. But it isn't as bad as you may think - I have faced all of these matchups and the only one that can successfully chase down and kill Jarvan is Lee Sin because E -> Q gives him an incredible amount of mobility. They can steal your creeps - which is pretty irritating, but because J4 can gank effectively at level 2 he can continously apply pressure even while behind.

Maybe his damage will fall off, but he has 2 AoE CC abilities that are UNAFFECTED BY TENACITY, an AoE armor shred, an armor and attack speed aura and a shield that potentially gives him 410 bonus health which doubles as an AoE - with a kit a like that he will NEVER stop being useful to the team.

I don't think Jarvan is a "god-tier" jungler at all, in fact I would argue that Nautilus and Alistar perform a similar role more effeciently at the moment (hence why they are more popular competitive picks right now). However, he is stronger than most people give him credit for and has unique traits that distinguish him from both of the above champions. In the right hands and with the right team comp, he can cause an almost unparalelled amount of destruction.