Talk:Spirit of the Elder Lizard/@comment-24938102-20140821001002

I am not overly fond of the Elder Lizard. Ultimately, I think it's pretty weak compared to the other Jungle Items.

Even on an AD Caster, for overall damage during ganks, 12 AD (Over 30), the 25+ Bonus On-Hit Magic damage from the Feral Flare, and 30% Attack Speed will more than likely net you more damage in longer teamfights. Even with a 50 point True Damage DOT burn, the extra autoattack which Wriggles Lantern/Feral Flare could allow will result in more damage. Plus, the early Spirit Stone does absolutely nothing during early ganks, while Madred's Razors at least gives you 15% Attack Speed.

The Spirit of the Ancient Golem, especialy on tank jungles, after the Quill Coat patch, is significantly stronger in practically every way. Granting 200 Health, 20 Armor, and most importantly 25% bonus health, even Bruiser jungles running a Randuins + Visage (Or Sunfire + Banshees, or w/e) will break the "Gold Efficiency" ceiling every time.

The Spirit of the Spectral Wraith grants 50-80 AP, plus 10% CDR, which definitely makes me feel good about devoting an item slot to it (And breaks the Gold Efficiency Ceiling, making the Conservation stacks purely profit). 30 AD and 10% CDR doesn't seem like a good enough trade.

The one counterargument is for AD Casters. The 3% damage to jungle creeps refunded as mana is extremely valuable, most of the time supercharging your sustain, but you don't have to upgrade your Spirit Stone to get that. When I run an AD-Bruiser, like Vi, I sit on the Spirit Stone until late enough that mana isn't as much of an issue, then ditch it for a 490G cash injection to finish my full build. Overall I've only spent 210G to allow me to sustain in jungle early. 30 AD +10% CDR isn't enough for me to devote an entire item slot to it.