Talk:Sejuani/@comment-15244341-20141007210104/@comment-15244341-20141008195635

I was writing this huge post, but I kinda figured I'll do a TL,DR, since I tend to be somewhat longwinded. So...

TL,DR: Counterjungling is already viable as the strong early game champions. Any buff or incentive to it that doesn't get followed by either nerfs to those champions or some sort of buff to weaker champions will just mean counterjungling becomes the new meta. Shutting down a jungler is not like shutting down a top laners. Junglers getting shut down makes all your lanes weaker so it is higly desireable as a strategy. If you top that off with weaker sustain and clear speed for Golem on top of stronger jungle creeps you just make coming from behind even harder.

Holding until six is a strategy that can work only if the enemy jungler doesn't destroy your lanes in the meantime. Trying to gank for an 0/4 botlane isn't going to work at all. The thing with early aggression in junglers is that it lets you get map control. When you have map control, like deep wards, dragon control and dead towers, farming the jungle becomes more risky and ganking becomes almost a bet. If they ward your bot side jungle and see a level 6 Sejuani walking botlane, someone is gonna roam and countergank. And if the Lee or whatever has been doing his job, that is, at better a failed gank.

I'm grateful for the advice, and I love playing Sejuani whenever I can in my ranked team and normals. I'm just too salty when it comes to solo queue and expecting your team to hold up for you to farm up.

I'd actually like to see some sort of jungler item that is not Machete and built for tank junglers. Make that build into golem and give it some sort of sustain passive that doesn't work on damage but is not as terrible as Quill Coat's is right now. The item is just so, so undelwhelming outside of single target tank champs (Like Rammus)