Talk:Karma/@comment-4636093-20150516141238/@comment-25223119-20150517050806

@Willbachbakal, @Krufix, @Kind-Hearted-One

Up to this point, I've been the first one to talk about the Old Karma kit so I'm guessing this is an indirect message to me. Considering how some of you are insensitive and can only say that the New Karma is better than the old, without giving solid reasons aside from her being viable now, let me highlight a few things.

1. Are you aware of the backstory behind Karma's rework?

2. Do you remember what made Karma thematically unique in League of Legends?

3. Did you know about the amount of dissatisfaction that came along when other reworks were implemented?

4. Did you truly spent time to play the Old Karma? Or you spent a few ten matches playing her and deciding there and then she deserved a rework? Because I've only played her for like 50 matches, and my perception of her kit and champion is good.

5. What do the recent changes tell you about Riot's plans for Karma?

Now, let me answer them for you.

1. Coronach was the original designer for Karma. If you look at the list of champions, Coronach is the only designer in league who made kits and champions who were balanced and unique at the same thing, Old Karma is one of them. Yorick is another. During the conceptualization of her reworked kit, I believe Guinsoo, Scarizard and Coronach were involved in the team effort (can be pretty sure about Guinsoo's involvement). There was a lot of time invested in to her rework, and halfway, Guinsoo and another designer were completely pushed out of the rework plan, leaving you with the current team of designers and balance team (mostly scarizard and co. the ones you see on Riot all the time). There were a lot of questions unanswered, why did the designers leave? Why were the kits drastically changed? Why did Karma went from brown to black? Why was she changed even in terms of lore? The reworks were just quickly done and pushed to PBE without explanation, giving many fans the impression the rework was rushed inappropriately. Wilump has already explained a greater part of the rework, they did not gave her old kit a chance by starting with numbers and mechanical tweaks.

2. Write me a full short description of what you think made Karma thematically dull (or unique) on League. If your answers are correct, then you'll know what was so special about Karma.

3. This ties in with the first issue. Many people were displeased because they weren't engaged or kept in the light with the reworks. At the same time, a lot of new Karma supporters overpowered the old Karma fanbase (people like you guys who can't take things with a pinch of salt, cannot bother to respect what the Old Karma fans have to say and thus the old fans had no choice but to keep quiet). Another reason would be that Karma had changed a lot thematically, with Riot's vision of champions, everyone in League has to be a badass (which is what they did with Karma). Fans did not enjoyed that badass status that Karma was given. This included losing a pair of iconic fans (IN BATTLE). Over the past 2 years, other fans have seen minor-scale reworks and learned that Riot doesn't have to change everything to make a champion viable.

4. A lot of people who complained about Old Karma had very consistent reasons (ie: I played her for a few matches, I don't even know her, who is she?). Rest assured, I started out feeling just like some of you, I didn't like her for the first few matches I played, absolutely didn't know her for some time. But when I started picking her up and playing her longer and longer, I got to appreciate Karma as a champion. And I did not experience any buggy, cluncky issues either.

5. The recent changes are more or less geared to Old Karma, frequent mantra changes, targetable W on monsters. But it's losing flavors of the Old Karma, shield bomb, regular W that can target monsters but not damage them directly. What difference does it make then, if the New Karma is getting pushed back in to the Old Karma? Why not have Riot look at the old kit again, give them time, let them make improvements and test whether the old kit is now viable and better in the current season? Old players shared to me that Riot decided to shelved old Karma away because it didn't fit League then. But over the years we had some pretty similar champions to, Kalista, Lucian, Bard for example. People didn't know how to work with them at first, but with guides and all, people are learning right now. FYI, no one wants jungle Karma to be a hype, but we're fine if she can jungle. We just don't want her to be like Nidalee whose intended for all 3 conventional lanes, and then suddenly she's in jungle few patches ago. This is not Riot being unique or creative, it's Riot pushing some unnecessary roles in to a champion when more work needs to be focused on making their initial roles solid.

TL;DR? No TL;DR for this. I'm an Ahri fan first and foremost and Karma fan second, but it's only recently I got engaged heavily in a Karma petition. I've accepted New Karma long ago but never felt right with her, the current PBE changes are what drove me to be engaged. If any, I can say that Old Karma fans are THE MOST pacifist users I've ever known. Many of them are understanding and genuinely want back what made Karma, Karma only. This just means most Karma fans have learned from their mistake are aware of what to complain aout. Back then, everyone was clueless and afraid to speak out. But now, everyone knows what to say and hence, why everyone else is starting to talk about Old Karma again.

Forget about things like "Oh, even if you tried Riot won't listen." I want to hear what you few New Karma fans think. Don't drag Riot in to this and use Riot's voice to suppress us. It's better to just hear what the few of you think first.