Talk:Udyr/@comment-26138131-20150223075004/@comment-25855686-20150308234047

my opinion

whatever you plan to max first (tiger or phoenix) you should always start phoenix at lv 1 just because (and i tested it) lv 1 clear, with whatever rune set, is faster with phoenix

starting gromp or krug also is a waste of time and hp (and i tested it) if you just start red smite it, go wold then blue and smite it i end with 80%+ hp with 2 pot if i had a leash, with 0/1 if i had no leash, krug is second best route gromp is definitly the worst route hp-wise (can i sterss again i tested it?)

if you go phoenix the devourer and wit's end are definitly too good just because the wit's end mr shred

if you go tiger i would just propose this "dont upgrade your stalker blade"

the reasoning is the following: what really do for you upgrading your enhancement? for warrior expecialy it give 15 ad for 50 g, WICH IS GOOD MIND YOU, but is that really what you want? most of the time is not, what i really need is not ad and penetration but i want a phage to stick to my target better and go ahead for my first big item, if you instead want the juggernaut enahncement  are you sure that a combination of giant belt/cloth or warden mail/ruby crystal aint good enough for the same cost? because you then will have a randuins omen, yet i understand that tenacity is a thing.

is just something that keep bugging me since the release of the new jungle items, what really they give that the separate component dont give already? and even tho there is actually a benefit (because there is) is that exactly what i want on my champion?

old jungle items had the conservation mechanic and the mana/hp sustain but once it is gone what really compels me into going that deep into them? for tiger expecially there is nothing.

back on tiger udyr i disagree in the ad runes on him, just because you play more of an on-hit effect build then raw ad build, if you think about it his core build (and i am assuming trinity and botrk) dont give great amount of ad, but rather on-hit effect, so i still stick to my AS quint/mark ( i know that i'm giving up some damage early game, but unless you plan to lv 2 invade with tiger and bear  AS will always be safer and more consistent troughout the game)