Talk:Vayne/@comment-96.2.176.175-20110512044844

I seem to hear a lot of trolling about Vayne being supposedly overpowered.. Here's my argument.. (NOTE! - Any suggestions made after the arguments are provided are meant to be considered for rebalancing. Meaning I don't think any suggestions should just be blatantly added or buff, there could be nerfing in other areas if needed.)

Starting off with Tumble.. I realise that a dash ability with a 2 second base cooldown sounds a tad ridiculous, but there's a lot you don't realise (most likely) having not played Vayne. First of all, it has the shortest range of any dash ability in game and it doesn't allow you to pass through walls (not even the river bank). Second, upon casting it adds a sort of 'buff', 'next attack does x bonus damage'. This 'buff' persists for 6 seconds and Tumble's CD does not refresh until the buff has either worn off or been consumed. Making Tumble an 8 second cool down if you have nothing to AA. Some would argue that you could just learn to animation cancel while escaping, however this just doesn't work as well as you'd think. Without a built in super-slow (like Ashe) and without your passive working while you're retreating, you're losing just as much time to turn around and auto-attack to consume your Tumble buff (making it able to be cast again sooner) as you gained by performing Tumble in the first place. So it's a little redundant and the ability needs adjustment.

Suggestions include giving Tumble a longer range, reducing the 'buff' duration (since 6 seconds isn't neccesary the way you'll be using the ability anyways), providing a minor movespeed increase after casting (flat or %), and/or allowing it to pass through terrain.

Moving on to Silver Bolts. I've also heard a lot of complaining this ability. While I understand that (at level 5) 70 + 8% Max Health True Damage sounds pretty overpowered at a first glance, please hear these ponits out. First, it requires you to land 3 consecutive hits on a single target and the charges diminish quickly (I'd like to know the amount of time on this if anyone would investigate that for me), so the damage you receive on this is only potential. Second, let's have a look at some theory combined with math. The theory is based on the idea that Vayne is an 'assasin'. So I think it's fair to say that assasins in League are suited to hunt down the enemy 'squishy' champions (generally low hp, generally low resistances). I also think it's reasonable to say that a lot of squishies in League end up with 2000-2500 HP end game. Now let's move onto the math. 2500 x .08 = 200 + 70 (70 is the base damage) = 270. At level 18, 270 damage, with the fact that it's true damage considered, isn't all that impressive. Compare this to say a Veigar with +600 AP at levl 18, his abilities are going to melt much harder than any of Vayne's even after resistances. Next, consider the fact that this ability will never get stronger, it has no scale and always remains 8% + 70 (at level 5). On another note, this ability is trigger with auto-attacks. Meaning you don't have the advantageuos range of a targetable ability (which most are larger than AA range). So not only are you constantly in danger of other abilities ranges, you're also forced to chase in (during laning phase, this is particularily noted) order to get your damage. Finally, keep in mind that this ability doesn't really scale into damage untill late game as it is. You're better off tank hunting with this ability combined with a Bloodrazor by late game. So this won't be adding much to your gank power early/mid game, which is exactly what an 'assasin carry' needs to begin carrying. I think we can all agree that Vayne's role shouldn't be a 'tank hunter', provided her concept of stealth and maneuverability.

Suggestions include making the ability deal more damage based on the amount of health they're missing (similar to Lee Sin), make it so that every time you proc the damage your attack speed (slightly) is increased against that target for x seconds (say 3-5), provide this ability a slow when the damage procs, and/or increasing the amount of base true damage, while also possibly lowering/removing the % damage, depending on how large the base increase is.

Next we'll discuss Condemn. This ability is fairly useful and fun to use. I think the mechanic of it works fine and the damage is pretty decent as well. However, due to Vayne's other flaws, this could possibly see a buff/adjustment as well.

Suggestions include giving this ability a slow (making it a more reliable escape) on the initial damage (make the slow only persist 1.5 seconds or less, so that if the collision damage occurs they are still only stunned) and/or provide it a small % true damage DoT.

Now onto her ultimate, we'll discuss Final Hour (although it should be called Final Seconds =p). I don't really have a problem with this ultimate. I think it's pretty decent as it is. However, just like any of the other abilities, rebalancing could be viable in CD and effects based on whether or not changes were made elsewhere.

Finally we'll briefly talk of Night Hunter. I like the idea of gaining movespeed 'while on the hunt', however it just doesn't seem to be enough sometimes. I don't have any suggetions for viable adjustments/rebalance on this at the moment.

So there's my argument as why Vayne isn't OP, tell me what you think.