Talk:Quinn/@comment-4094339-20130507052216/@comment-9008617-20130511043050

"AD - You get 30 from this item. If you buy a BotRK instead, it costs you only 5 AD."

So we're agreed that more is always better, right?

"Health - BotRK gives you 15% of your enemies' max health as bonus damage, in fact. Now if you count 100 effective armor, this is still 7.5% of what can easily be 3000 health, so 225 health. That's a slight bit less than Trinity Force, if I remember the health right (TF gives 250 IIRC)."

You haven't considered that not everyone reaches 3000 max health (i.e. most carries) and max health can be quite low in early to mid game and few reach 3000 health that early. Being an active, this also requires you to be within range of the target. And in order to benefit from the stolen health, you must not be close to full health yourself otherwise there's nothing to heal.

"Slow - You don't need it with BotRK active, your E, your ult, and your W passive. And you need it even less if you buy Furor."

Since you said Trinity is a bad item on "ALL ADCs" then I'm not sure why you just limit it to one champ now. The slow from Trinity is always up and since most ADCs make use of high attack speed this means there are more opportunities to proc the slow.

I would say that the BotRK active is much more better during escapes or chases though generally as you gain the stolen movement speed.

"Attack Speed - BotRK grants more."

Yes, 10% more.

"Crit chance - You lose 20% here if you don't take Trinity Force, right?"

Nope, Trinity has a 10% crit chance.

"Movement speed - Same as with the slow - you're already fast enough. Not to mention that a Phantom Dancer grants nearly as much while allowing you to ignore unit collision."

That 3% more movement speed from Trinity Force over Phantom Dancer is about 10 or so movement speed on the slower base ADCs which is actually a noticeable chunk in the game...

"Ability Power - Wow, an amazing 15 damage every 7 seconds."

Almost all ADCs have some skill(s) that scale off of AP (i.e. Ezreal). So that extra 30 AP may not mean an extra 100 magic damage but it's still free damage.

"Mana - If you have mana problems with Quinn you're doing something wrong."

Having more mana can't hurt for most ADCs.

"Sheen proc - You normally don't space out your abilities. That, again, means one proc every 7 seconds."

Doing 150% on your basic attack on an ADC every 2 seconds after a skill use is bad because...?

"So, what are the things that are useful?

'A slow + movement speed bonus that I maybe shouldn't count because I didn't count those either for Trinity Force. The slow is more reliable though. And the movement speed better."'

And it's only usable every 90 seconds and only used on one target that has to be within range. Whereas Trinity's movement speed passive is 8% all day. And the slow is 30% for melees and 20% for ranged ADCs and procs 1 in 4 hits which ain't too shabby when you're an ADC who stacks attack speed which Trinity already brings a decent +30% aspd.

"30 AD

250 health

30% Attack Speed

20% Crit chance

Now what does a BotRK offer for 800 gold less?

25 AD

225 (effective) health

40% attack speed

A passive that grants an average of 50 bonus damage PER AUTOATTACK on a squishy, or 75+ on a bruiser or tank."

There's no question that BotRK is a good weapon for the current health stacking meta and I almost always get it (sometimes even first). But you basically disregarded the AP bonus, the max mana bonus, the movement speed bonus, the icy passive, and the spellblade passive... seems like a lot to disregard when comparing items.

Sometimes oversimplifying isn't a good thing. :)