Talk:Riven/@comment-24201437-20131122150308/@comment-5209745-20131124010851

"riven does well in team fights with only 4.5k gold, brutalizer + bloodthirster/hydra, because she has 4 dashes, a shield, stun + knock-up, and an aoe execute. as soon as she enters a teamfight, unless the other lanes lost as well, she's gonna get back into the game really soon."

May I ask you, what kind of Rivens have you seen? And please, don't answer me "I'm Diamond I, so I must know more than you", I want pics, vids. Hell, I admit that she's strong, but you're talking about her like if she was god.

About the dashes, I've said it some threads below: Although I admit that the common dash range goes from 600 to 700, and that Riven's Q goes up to 720, she can be interrupted between every cast, which actually reduces the effectivenes of Q as a gap closer/escape mechanism. So it's mostly like a common dash and a short dash, rather than 4 dashes.

Sorry for the delicious copy-pasta, I just don't want to write it all again.

"and absolutely nobody will build zephyr + alacrity swifties. It's like saying release xin zhao was ok because you could just build 6 thornmails. There's a gold and item slot limit to countering with items and once you pass it things ain't good."

Well, Udyr says hi. You know, that guy who looks like a buddhist monk with a manly beard and a berserker cape on his head? That one who actually counters Riven and builds Swift+Zephyr? (Ok, maybe not Alacrity).

I'm not going to deny that some characters don't even have space for defensive alternatives, some don't even have space for defensive items (Or at least that's how I like to justify my carry builds). That said, that's a problem on their account. There are also other characters who can build defensive items without damaging their itemization and even build defensive alternatives.

Also, countering her damage doesn't requires that much. I've countered many Rivens with just Tabi+Randuin's.

''"6 second cooldown, 3.6 with 40% cdr (brutalizer + ionians/zephyr + blue/visage", to showcase it's not hard to get it on her). Scales 100% with bonus AD which she builds at least 200-300 of, making it 390 hp every 3.6 seconds. It's been widely showcased in games that the shield is incredible at blocking damage and survivability."''

... I see a really good wall of text, with a really good undersanting about the shield mechanics, but I still don't see anywhere any reason why her shield isn't still behind Karma, Janna and Diana's shields.

"It's one of the things that makes her one of the few champs who can make plays 1 v 5 and escape with 3 kills (looking at bjergsen)."

This is one of the things I hate the most from this community. "So yeah, a player of a very higher league, that doesn't represents even the 1% of the players of this game, made a 1v5 play. Let's nerf before everyone turns Platinum 1, DERP".

Btw, don't believe that 1%, I've not really done the math, I just suspect it goes more or less that ratio.

"i think you mean it always hits unless you have a good dash, or flash - and remember, flash has the same cooldown as 4-9 riven ults."

You should also think that if you've not picken a character that can avoid that SKILLSHOT while in draft mode, it's your fault. The word "counterpick" rings any bell?

"all of which are meele. the only comparable one is jinx's, which is - gated by mana - has a slow start-up which means it can be dodged if you see it coming, and since it's slow, you have waaaaay more chances doing it - deals less damage close-range."

Leyrann's point here was that, since per example Garen, Darius, and Cho's ults (I don't know about Jinx, tho) are targeted ults, you can't avoid them. Riven's at least is avoidable.

"and the least that should happen to her is less base movement speed so she actually needs to buy boots to keep up with champs that have boots, and a longer cooldown on that shield."

Please... If you don't have boots after the laning phase, you're doing something VERY wrong. As a Riven player, I can tell that going with 345 MS, even with those dashes, is just not enough.

And about the shield CD, there's already a thread some threads below about that. I just don't want to do the copypasta again.

"Riven is definitely still above the norm"

True. But imo, not really OP, borderline tho.