Talk:Garen/@comment-5906436-20130626061705/@comment-5906436-20130630180607

@ Oslah: How is it more effective against carries than bruisers? Both take the same percentage of health (25% of target's maximum health), though carries often lose a [B]lower[/B] sum of health since they don't often build health unless needed.

The concept of this move is not to be able to dunk the carry. While it can be done, it would be a waste, since even fed carries can die rather quickly when handled right. The purpose of the reworked Ult is to be able to put pressure on the bulkier champions. As I said, Garen's original style was to be able to win fights not by doing more damage than his opponent, but by being able to soak more damage than his opponent. His damage as it stands is easily outclassed by most other bruisers once they get out of lane (Vi and Gast-... [I]Darius[/I] come to mind), so he needs something that makes him a threat in teamfights. Ult 2.0 punishes bruisers and tanks who hang around combat too long.

@Gerokrat: As for allowing Ult 2.0 to be used freely or to only work when an opponent is in kill range, playtesting would be required to be able to understand how people react to it's existance. On paper, though, it should remain unhindered. It can scare off champions who take a hit from it if used early.

I don't know how Barrier works with heath-checking effects like Atma's, and I'm not proficient enough in Mathcraft to figure it out successfully. However, if you're talking about whether the suggested ult 2.0 would ignore the Barrier, the answer is no; the shield would still soak some of the damage. The barrier itself wouldn't change how much damage is dealt either, since (as far as I'm aware) it does not change the amount of max health.

Now, to address the talk of switching his Innate and his W Passive. To be honest, that doesn't need to be done. The only thing that needs to be fixed in that regard are the numbers; Perserverence should have a shorter cooldown, the regen rate should be reverted, and Courage's passive should count 18 to 20% of Garen's [I]total[/I] Armor/MR (Though I'm gonna disagree on scaling, Oslah: Buying Armor/Mr and leveling up serves as the scaling here).