Talk:Yasuo/@comment-25223119-20150308133440/@comment-24036535-20150313230205

To truly win an argument, one must be just as willing to lose it, and be convinced otherwise, otherwise both parties may as well be yelling at a brick wall, you must be willing to listen, and be willing to be wrong, or else you will never be truly right.

"It's just pointless. Yasuo is an item dependant MELEE carry. Every melee carry in the game outdamages ranged adc's, because they need to go in and win. Yasuo is unique in that he RELIES on utility in order to do this rather than crazy self buffs."

I understand the whole "melee carries have to have good DPS to be viable", which is why I find them toxic and outdated as a class of champions in MOBAs, though that's a discussion for another day. Assuming that we keep that aspect in the game however, it still means Yasuo has a lot of means to avoid damage, and deal a TON of it, Trynd has his own problems with his ult, and the existence of that doesn't justify Yasuo have so many means to avoid damage.

"His mobility is limited, and if you want to argue that it's stronger than champions like Riven, Rek Sai, leblanc, or even Jarvan, then I'm going to say you're completely wrong. It's short range, can't go over walls, and he can only dash to enemies. Also bullshit on situations where it isn't the best gap closer being rare. Many times you'll find it's MUCH more convienent if you're playing someone with a non-restricted gapcloser."

For every enemy unit, he gains a 475 unit gapcloser, and usually, there will be multiple dashable units, that's a lot of dashes. Yes, it's short, but generally several short gapclosers are better than one long gapcloser (assuming equal total length), as they provide more options for turning/juking etc. Yes, unrestriced gapclosers are useful, oftentimes moreso than enemy-restricted gapclosers, but the fact remains that Yasuo easily gets 5+ dashes a teamfight, plus his ult, which is immense mobility.

"Call it psuedo balance if you want, but giving a lot to a kit then making numbers shitty make's a champion different. It would've happened eventually, even if not as Yasuo, because that IS a form of balance."

The problem with nerfing Yasuo's numbers, and not changing his kit, is because his numbers weren't the problem, hence pseudo-balanced. They nerfed something of Yasuo's, that didn't need to be nerfed, while ignoring the problem, ex slashing (heh) Talon's damage instead of his silence (the justification of this example is that it is providing a paralell explanation of what I previously listed). Hurting his damage would kinda help, but the problem of killing people (Or failing to do so), without counterplay is still kinda there.

"Focus him. He can't go invuln or keep himself from dying for five seconds."

As I said, CC is not counterplay, it's a core aspect of the game, not a justifiable response. The same goes for focus, it isn't justification either, since, you know, there's generally an ADC to deal with too. Focus is good when a specific enemy is fed, but the prescence of a champion in game at all, is not a reason to focus them.

"When he uses the wall, back off and force him to walk through it to hit you. Don't use your obvious as all hell abilities like Ez ult while he has wall. Speaking of Ez, he's one adc that is miserable to play against as Yasuo. Peel him off, nautilus, sej, blitz, morg, ALL of them can absolutely ruin your engage."

Of course it's a bad idea to use obvious as hell abilities, that's obvious (heh), but assuming the Yas is at all decent, you can easily block less obvious spells with it (I did my first game). Your enemies will always have to burn something worth walling to bait the wall in the first place, which is often something that comes with CC, or is very high damaging, otherwise he can just take it because of the shield, meaning you will usually have to open yourself up to engagement for several seconds, or burn your engagement, just to bait his wall. Within teamfights, yeah, not so useful, easy to move around, but of course, Yas can always dash around you to the other side too, or just fight you if you're that close to his wall, you know, highest DPS in the game an all that? Also, listing specific scenario's, like Naut, Sej, etc, is not an argument or evidence, it's listing specific examples of champions who many not be present in a game, who can do decently against Yasuo, but again, not always present, therefore they are not a real form of counterplay or justification for an overloaded kit.

"Lastly, stop quoting what his kit has as if that's justification of a nerf, next time someone does it, I'll do the same thing for Urgot and it will make him sound just as overpowered as yasuo. "

Quoting from his kit IS kinda justification, it's how you help determine balancing, it's providing direct evidence of a toxic component/overpowered ability. Taking all your evidence from gameplay offers not only heavily biased data, but a poor representation of data, because certain other aspects, irrelevant to his kit, are at play, eg: intentional feeding, being on tilt, being heavily countered.