Board Thread:Wiki discussions and announcements/@comment-4698489-20150808195101/@comment-1330314-20150814111128

Phoenix169 wrote: I see we're getting somewhere at last. You finally admit that you have been using FlipText not according to the official standard but to your own standard which for the first time you have elaborated upon. This is the fundamental problem here. Instead of engaging the wiki in discussion to modify what was, in your opinion, an "incorrect" standard, you avoided all of that and made sweeping changes according to your own preferences.

The "official" standard was written by a single person who also engaged in no discussion when establishing it, and was clearly out of touch with its usage on the mainspace. It's a pretty glaring double standard for you to dismiss my work as unjustified but fall back on a piece of text that has even less justification.

Phoenix169 wrote: As for the two "real" issues that you mention, they are clear reasons for why FlipText should not be overused.

No, they are clear reasons for changing FlipText itself. Reducing the usage of FlipText simply because the template itself isn't optimally implemented is a band-aid solution that, at best, fixes nothing in the long-term, and at worst will just induce a wiki-wide rewrite only for it to be undone once the template gets fixed.

Phoenix169 wrote: There is also a third issue that I've mentioned multiple times already: using FlipText makes it more difficult to compare values since they are no longer listed side-by-side.

Compare what? You specifically want non-derived values to be side-by-side: there is no ratio between them, as you yourself clearly stated, and the values are already organized to clearly indicate which one is the largest. Removing FlipText on those values will not make comparison easier.

Phoenix169 wrote: And as a bonus, here's a fourth: FlipText makes it impossible to copy or screenshot all of the values at the same time.

Going into edit mode is typically what you do to copy anything on an article, and it's impossible to screenshot any double value under FlipText, not just the ones you listed (there's also never been any issues with that, even when content creators like MagicarpUsedFly did screenshot FlipTexted values). This is a bullshit argument.

Phoenix169 wrote: FlipText becomes a bother when toggling it is an absolute requirement to access some piece of information.

This just presumes that FlipText is a template that is so unpleasant to use that you'd only want to have it lock out information you personally don't care about, which would involve you never having to click on any FlipText template at all. Again, at worst, this points to usability issues surrounding FlipText, but that would be solved by editing the template and not the pages using it. Other than that, this argument holds about as much water as saying any kind of show/hide template, such as the "notes" template under and, is bad because it visually hides critical information. This manner of formatting is also completely inconsistent with the way components are listed in leveling sections, where derived components are listed separately when they're part of different ability components (e.g. and its on-hit damage) and non-derived information would make no sense to be listed separately (e.g.,  and their bonus damage).