Talk:Nidalee/@comment-5489694-20130415165545/@comment-8506165-20130422155145

Why are we comparing them? Well, for a start, they're both "supports" played more traditionally as AP carries - it's rare for me to see a Nida on bot lane who actually buys anything that could be considered a support item, but I digress - and more importantly, your argument for the past several days has just been that Nidalee's spears are her biggest damaging spell in human form, and they only do damage. Well, Zilean has only one damaging spell in Time Bomb, period, and that "only does damage". To match Nidalee's damage, as you mentioned, he has to use Rewind, which granted is on a 6 second CD but precludes double-bombing if you're using it as soon as it's off cooldown. More importantly, he has to use three spells to match Nidalee's one.

I'll grant you that the comparison isn't entirely 1:1. I don't know where you're getting that they do AoE true damage though - magic damage yes, but within a small area that's not significantly going to increase his overall damage output. But hey, if we're considering areas where the comparison falls down, how about that it's much less viable to build Zilean full glass cannon than Nidalee, so despite his good AP ratios he's still going to be hampered by his poorer low base defense and less reliable escape? I have more if you want...

But my point is, your argument is just wrong. You've consistently been arguing that javelins are balanced because of their status as her main damage spell in human form, and that they're a pure damage spell at that. Well, Zilean has only one damage spell, it doesn't match Nidalee's unless he uses his CD reduction spell to cast it twice in succession, and he can't do that as often as Nidalee can throw javelins. And perhaps more to the point, he doesn't have an entire extra form with more damage abilities to access there when the enemy is below 50% health, melee or no. If you're really arguing here in the name of "balance" then you should be over on Zilean's page arguing just as arduously that he's horrendously underpowered and needs a damage/CD buff on Time Bomb. Assuming of course, that balance is your only reason for arguing so vehemently for maintaining the obscene damage and low CD of Javelin Toss.