Talk:Riven/@comment-8733289-20131224042732/@comment-9008617-20140105180709

@CliffShadow:  Hespecter already addressed all your points but since you're directing the comment to me I'll throw in a few points.

Firstly, you're completely missing or disregarding everything that's been brought up.

1) Yes, Lee Sin's shield grants him lifesteal UPON SECOND ACTIVATION.  This means that Lee Sin must use 80 energy out of his 200 max energy pool (barring Max Energy runes) or 40% of his resources - Riven uses NO RESOURCES and is only prohibited by CD (which is LOWER than Lee Sin's shield's CD) from spamming her shield.

2) Lee Sin's shield's "gap closer" has to be used on an allied target/ward.  Riven goes wherever Riven wants to go with her shield.

3) Riven's shield scales purely off bonus AD and even with a modest 200'ish bonus AD Riven's shield is ~400'ish on a 6 second CD.  Compare this to Lee Sin's 200 shield which scales on AP (which almost no Lee Sin builds) on a 9 second CD.

4) Lee Sin's shield does not "double the effective health for the team".  Like Hespecter said, your statement is just flawed.  Doubling "effective health for the team" would mean EVERYONE on your team would have double the health which simply is not true.

5) Along with #3, Lee Sin's shield is played completely differently.  Riven's is typically used as an engage and allows you to mitigate 400'ish damage every 6 seconds.  Lee Sin's shield mitigates half of that, requires allied units/wards if used to engage (which, btw, may not be the best idea since it's one of Lee Sin's escapes/disengages) such as with the insec kick, and requires enemy units/minions if you plan to maximize the LS/SV to make up for the inferior shield "health".

TLDR; Address SOMETHING instead of reiterating that Lee Sin's shield gets LS/SV.

As for Janna's shield, yeah, it's a teamgame but on top of what Hespecter said, you forget that Janna takes up a champion spot on your team. Riven has the shield packaged into ONE champ. Along with Janna's shield having a mana cost and nearly twice the CD, a huge aspect you're missing is that Janna's shield requires coordination (and Janna on your team/in your lane/leeching your exp).

Lucidity boots and CDR items are quite common on Riven since she is more of a skill caster champion rather than AA (yes, you AA after each Q but she is more skill spammy than AA-orientated).

Ezreal's Q with Max CDR is 2.4 seconds. Riven's shield on Max CDR is 3.6 seconds.

Ezreal's flash with Max CDR is 6.6 seconds (i.e. double Riven's gap closer CD) and covers only 150 more range. Even with max CDR, you're at most going to get 2 Q's in as Ezreal to reduce your CDs (and that's being very Q spammy/manaless) making Ezreal's flash's CD approximately 4.6 seconds (> Riven's shield's 3.6 second CD). Also, if you build purely CDR on Ezreal you typically lack damage...

If Leyrann wants to play Riven vs Riven in the NA server then sure, lets do it up. But my point (and yes, I feel I know best what my point was) is that a Riven vs Riven match up proves nothing. The criticisms of Riven by the league community should not be settled by a 1v1. A 1v1 Riven match up doesn't address any of the problems at all. Like you said, it's a team game. Having two people playing the same OP champ against each other doesn't reflect what the TEAM dynamic is with Riven.

What comes to mind for me is when Riven dives the team and AoE stuns and follows up for an AoE knock up. For those 2 seconds the enemy team is AoE-disabled, in a real game your team would've piled on a lot of damage/killed off a champion. In a 1v1 Riven match up, there is no team follow up because there's no team.

TLDR: Please bring up something of value to the discussion... If you reiterate Lee Sin's LS/SV again, I'll just be re-directing you to this post.