Talk:Heimerdinger/@comment-79.184.199.218-20121107154507/@comment-5052127-20121110002748

^ when they went from 6 to 3, it was a buff (or at least buffed some things to make up for losing turrets)... they made EACH turret stronger, gave each turret more health AND resistance, made them start out promoted based on the level of the skill rather than needing upgrades from the ult, and made them gain damage with each shot... the 3 turrets were MUCH stronger than the 6... and a tryn would NOT kill them with a single spin when he had 3 (close though... it usually took about 2 strong auto-attacks each or one of the stronger large AOE attacks like Anivia's to kill them late game...), when he had 6, they each had a LOT less life and did less damage, and didn't have the slow.

I agree though that Zyra IS already definitely better mid-late game than the 3 turret Heimer was... nobody EVER thought Heimer was a problem past 15 minutes, he was considered weak late even then... his nerfs were all about his stupidly strong early game, but also made his late game even weaker than it already was.

The difference between Heimer and Zyra which finally got him nerfed to oblivion is that Heimer's turrets are permanent... maybe easy to kill or get around late game, but the way they combined with his other abilities IN LANE made his early game absolutely ridiculous... he could inch a nest of turrets to your tower, blow it up, and there was NOTHING you could do to stop him or even slow his farming down in any way. Morello called this toxic, so they nerfed the hell out of him after that.