Talk:Garen the Night of Demacia/@comment-99.240.60.236-20110612190013/@comment-38.116.202.8-20110616182830

Here, let me say a bit more tersely why Garen's scaling needs to be better - Udyr's Tiger Stance provides very similar scaling with attack damage items as Garen (His 1.7 means the skill gets 70% more from attack damage, like the extra 20% for Garen on Judgement and 50% on Decisive Strike) and may be cast much more often while proving attack speed and also actually scaling with it, while Udyr's movement speed ability provides more movement during its entire duration, stuns and may be cast every 6 seconds instead. Garen's saving grace in that manner would be his silence (which requires melee distance and easily allows enemies in a teamfight to cact all their abilities before Garen gets close), Courage's durability (but you can't do much damage...) slow removal (on his damage ability which means using it to remove slows frequently leaves you unable to damage with it. Not using it means you are kited.) AOE damage (which is still small in damage and radius, and it tends to be unreliable for that since it requires a whole 3 seconds), and ultimate (which is of dubious value late-game).

And people still think Udyr is a bit too easy to kite. The real difference between the two that is an uncomparable difference is their early games of jungling versus laning. In a teamfight, Udyr is much, much better. When Garen doesn't completely shut down his lane (He doesn't always - if he always did, he'd be rightfully considered overpowered), he's useless.