Talk:Poppy/@comment-26203093-20151205093255/@comment-26203093-20151208084603

Juggernauts; they're big, bulky, meaty, and cause carnage. Usually expressed through:

1; slow hard hitting auto's via base damage. Slow part isn't really true for skarner. poppy fits with this.

2; Abilities that scale well with health or promote building health. Skarner: health shield - garen, passive, and base resistances - Darius, health return based on missing health, same for illaoi. Poppy gets 15% of her max health via her passive.

3; low mobility - partially true, again, skarner tends to break with this. 2.5 seconds of 35% is on the low end. Skarner and garen run around for 3-6 seconds. The range on her charge is also short in terms of targeting. 525 vs 700 for jax, vi, xin etc. darius's aprehend has a longer range.

4; cause carnage: usually just via the damage they do, and usuall in terms of aoe. Nasus - who is an official juggernaut, they've said that's who they try to model them after - is lethal at close range, and wither forces the team to scramble to keep him away from that target, and almost doesn't care who he's slapping so long as he keeps slapping. Darius, just needs to build bleed stacks, and keep healing, which causes all kinds of trouble. Garen's villain has to be protected at all costs. Skarner just nonstops shreds and isolates people as soon as he gets in range. Illaoi has tentacles everywhere. Poppy Hammers, and stops dashes - just not with high enough damage.

It's the wall of death, slowly (assuming the teams are using their cc like they should) closing in on the backline while wading through the front line.

The moblity is important as a matter of zoning and predictability, if poppy's charge is short enough, it still fits the pattern, if a bit stretched. I've had skarner, run as fast as the enemy team does normally, while under slow effects, so slow is a very relative term. I keep mentioning skarner because his disruption from cc is significantly higher than the other juggernauts, and the juggernauts have their powers pushed in different directions. Darius is probably the juggerest naut with the lowest mobility, but still extended threat range of his apprehend, and devastating results from getting 5 bloodstacks. Skarner is way more mobile, attacks faster, and locks people down. Mordekaizer deals spell damage, instead of physical - still fits the slow wading onslaught playstyle, though. Garens kit for some reason promotes blitzing. Running in, doing what you can, and running out to regenerate. Illaoi's E is almost supportive in its utility like a (albeits less devastating) blitz grab.

Some have a hard time getting in, but that too is still relative among the juggernauts and yes poppy's charge would push her away from that, but she needs a target to use it, so zoning still applies. Illaoi jumps to her targets with her W, so clearly the ability to dash isn't taboo, and is dependant on whether, again, the same zoning still applies. Jarvan doesn't need a target to pull himself, and has a leaping ult as a follow through. Vi has the same. irelias dash can be reset, has 125 longer range, and is on a shorter cooldown, and focuses on attacking single targets as a duelist - even in teamfights. They're divers. Currently Poppy can't dive like that, and her reliance on hitting the walls in those fights if she goes in like that, makes her charge opportunites very limited when combined with the range.

She's basically slow, meaty, higher mobility on par with skarner, and doesn't deal enough damage in team fights, but is something she's still required to do. tune one of those down and the other one up like they do when testing, and you've got a juggernaut. The other way around, and maybe a diver. if she's going to remain an assassin, her defenses make little sense, and her focus damage is way too low. her lack of stickiness makes her a poor duelist too, and would probably be straight outdamaged anyway vs udyr, jax, irelia, vi, fiora...

Juggernaut is simply her closest role.

Or maybe... no, her dash is targeted, and her ult range isn't long enough and slows her - was hoping her ult could be use as a flank engage tool, then again, saving the backline and diving the frontline seems ass backwards, but maybe the range is long enough. I don't know, she's awkward atm in most normal comps.