Talk:Riven/@comment-77.251.227.94-20120515212938/@comment-4834593-20120520202311

[WARNING: WALL OF TEXT INCOMING]

First, I'd like to tell everyone that the fact Fiora can't win by glass cannon + right click, like ranged carries like Vayne, Graves or Ashe do, does not mean she can not be build glass cannon (also, yes, I know it's not just right-clicking. I just mean it's mostly auto-attacks). This is something that, out of the game, only Fiora, Tryndamere and, to a lesser extend, Kayle have. Tryndamere has an ultimate that makes him immortal for five seconds, Kayle has an ultimate that makes her or someone else immune to damage for three seconds (however, this is better used at your AD carry or someone like that. Only use it on yourself when you have to 1v1 the enemy carry or something like that), and Fiora has an ultimate that deals damage around equal to a basic attack, maybe a bit more, plus 500 base, and giving her life steal, while making her untargetable. You wait for your tank to initiate. Then you attack the most squishy champion you can attack. And you make sure to have your ult ready when you are getting low on health. Then use it, almost "resetting" your health bar in the process (this is why each Fiora should have decent life steal). When your ult is over, there has to be something weird happening if no enemies has died yet. Their AP carry will most likely have his/her abilities on cooldown. That means two damage dealers less. And you still have your life steal. At this point, you can't get bursted down anymore, nor can you easily be hard cced. You only have to make sure noone uses hard cc on you too early, because you can't ult then. But that's why tanks (or your own team's hard cc) exist. "Well firstly, that is an AD Carry build and not how you are supposed to build Fiora (if you want to live for more than 1 second in a team fight). Most of those items don't benefit her ult whatsoever (lol Phantom Dancer and Infinity Edge wtf, her ult doesn't crit).

Sure, an AD Carry build will enable any character, even Soraka, to kill anyone 1v1, but most champs are unsuited to using it and will not be able to pull it off against competent opponents. The fact that you are seeing Fioras building Phantom Dancer suggests that you are not playing at a skill level where builds even matter in the outcome of a game."

I guess I already answered this post in the first part of my post. "Oh boy, Fiora's ult does a lot of damage. That's amazing.

You know what does more damage? Wukong's ultimate, and the rest of his skills do more damage too.

You know what does almost as much damage and has a 9 second cooldown? Garen's E.

Despite that, you don't build 6 Bloodthirsters on them like a retard, and neither do you do that on Fiora.

Leyrann you need to stop screwing up these pages with your terrible opinions."

Wukong: please look up your numbers next time. Single-target, Fiora deals more damage, if hitting all five enemies for the full duration (both), Wukong will have a bit more damage. But Wukong will never hit anyone for the full duration.

Garen: Single-target damage is indeed equal (if both have the same built, and Garen hits for the full duration), multi-target, Garen will never hit all five enemies.

And no, I dont build 6 Bloodthirsters on anyone. That is foolish. Where do you want to get crits (if you have bloodthirsters, that means you use auto-attacks)? Where do you want to get attack speed? Where do you want to get movement speed? Where do you want to get armor penetration? (also replying a bit to that first post here)

I'd want to conclude with this: Carry Fiora has the bad thing she is a melee, but if she is played by a decent player, who is able to get close to enemies undamaged, you're screwed as team. And she is no champion for bad players. Because I hated her damage, I had decided to buy her on the PBE. She took me longer before I could play her than any other champion, except Tryndamere (but that was most likely just because I was a noob back when I bought Tryndamere).

Her high damage, high bonus attack speed steroid, attack damage, enemy attack blocker that also blocks auto-attack enhancing nukes like Poppy or Nasus Q and double dash are to make up for that she is melee. And her passive (that is almost as much as a health pot on early levels) can make the difference if you are agressive in your top lane at level one, or if your enemy is. I have seen this myself.

Last (yes, this is really the last) the OP claims I made first were maybe a bit too much, but if you find a really good one, you have a big problem. It's like finding a really good Tryndamere (you have bad Tryndameres, low level only, good Tryndamere, 99% of what you ever see, and very good ones, that carry the game on their own), or Riven, or someone like that. Shyvana. I once saw a Shyvana who jungled, with two feeders on her bot lane, 1v3 enemies at Dragon, and win.