Talk:Azir/@comment-26034614-20150901201037/@comment-24496127-20150903201401

I know what his command range is, I just always assumed the soldier auto attacked anything around it as long as you were in command range. If that's not the case then I'm wrong, but if you look the soldier's auto attacks have 375 range, so If I'm right then that is near 1200 range. Not really the point either way, the point is he outranges any bruisers.

Now, quoting back at me "git gud" would've been witty....if you weren't wrong. I'm actually an Azir player, and have never personally had too much trouble against him barring the occasional main that just stomped the game. I'm only really said anything to you because you seem to want an already strong champion farther buffed because you can't be bothered to actually learn him.

Anyway, your last posts has so many contradictions in it that it's actually silly you want to keep arguing that he isn't strong still, let alone nerfed to oblivion.

First of all, this entire paragraph here.

"This is like saying "since Jinx has 700 range (at rank 5) when her rocket auto attacks are active, Jinx can easily rocket crit everyone while staying very safe in laning phase/teamfights without being harassed by anyone apart from adcs who outrange her, Azir and some mages with abilities that grant them massive range, due to the fact that most brusiers only have around 600-range gapclosers". You can see how flawed this statement is."

Aside from high range DPS being the only thing similar and that it takes until at least level 9 to get that really high range on JInx, Jinx dies if people jump on her assuming they're equally fed. Azir has the ability to dash away, or ult them away, or just try and out dps them while Kiting with the slow from his Q that also repositions his soldiers. That with high range, which even if it's only 800, is still higher than most champions, gives an Azir way more safety than a Jinx will ever have with just range.

Basically, you're assuming that one part of something has to apply all other parts of it. In this case, you're saying that since Azir's range makes him safe, which is just part of what makes him safe, then Jinx is also a champion with long range, and thus also safe. That's not how the game works, and If I remember correctly that's actually a logical fallacy.

Next up, this

" He does have the advantage of having better range against most mid laners, but many mid laners have same, if not better regular/ultimate crowd control abilities, very long-ranged pokes, or excellent gapclosers."

Now, let me ask you, how are you deciding what makes an ability objectively better from another? If Azir hits you with two auto attacks from a soldier, then it's already one of the highest scaling regular abilities in the game. If he hits you with five then it IS the best scaling in the game. If you have three assassins trying to jump on you, then Azir's ultimate is infinitely better than a Syndra ultimate. If you want to kill one person, Syndra is better at that. Saying some champions have stronger abilities is only applicable when you have two champions with basically the same role, such as Darius and Garen pre rework, otherwise it just doesn't work.

"They can easily ignore Azir's zoning and his soldiers because they can be telegraphed easily. His Q has windup time and enemies  CAN  see it coming every time Azir casts this ability. They can completely nullify Azir's Q and his soldiers, making both of his "bread-and-butter" abilities Q and W useless, if he wastes all of his soldiers."

Are we even thinking of the same champion here? His Q moves almost instantly, and at a very high speed, unless you just have really long range and can farm from there (Ziggs), you are not going to be able to avoid his Q consistently. Especially during hectic teamfights.

Aside from that, you say he's useless if he wastes all his soldiers as if that's a real weakness. What mage isn't useless if they manage to miss or waste all their damage? After watching a video of it at a quarter speed, the soldiers do in fact move the second Azir presses Q, so unless you meant the soldiers moving to you is a windup time, you're just outright wrong on that or it's so quick it doesn't matter.

I'd agree that his ult isn't up for every teamfight later game....if he wasn't almost always played with 40% cdr, which puts his ultimate at a 60 second cooldown rank three, more than enough to be up for every teamfight unless you enjoy strolling through unwarded enemy jungle while they have a Rengar or something.

This next thing you said honestly made me think you were trolling rather than wanting a serious discussion.

"The argument of "hur dur he has massive range to zone them out" is indefensible because that's what he does"

You literally just admitted that he has massive range to zone them out, and then go on to say he needs more despite zoning them out being "what he does". Even his zoning is only really telegraphic in the sense that he has soldiers. That doesn't mean you can do anything about it. If you try to walk past them they stab you. If you try to go around them or through them it's basically an easy slow and even more damage.

I've seen professional teams zoned by a single Azir. I don't care if you dislike the game being balanced around them, they're the best, or at the very least better than you or I, and a single champion can basically shut down an entire professional team from doing anything. If his Zoning was so avoidable that wouldn't happen.

"Do we have to nerf his E as well because he has larger ranges on his abilities than most of the mid laners? Just because Azir has one mobility spell which is his E, and has relatively better zoning and teamfight power, that key part of his kit, that used to allow him to counter brusiers' and assassins' engages, is nerfed?"

....Yes? It sounds like you're arguing against yourself here. Azir has long range, High zoning power, High teamfight power, and extremely high damage. He could blow up the enemy assassin just by jumping on them and mashing Q and auto's on them. Often before they could even retaliate, and if they could, he would ult them away. Most don't even have gapclosers that outrange him, so they even have to struggle to get to him first as well. Now he either chooses to ult them away, or pull out his damage to reposition. Maybe, just maybe, he already has arugably the strongest defensive CC/wall ability in the game, and doesn't need more options.

Azir's mana problems are basically nonexistent late game, and his E cooldown is about 8 seconds with max CDR. That's not that long when he already has his ultimate AND his range to go with it. E-Q combo isn't even really necessary for defensive use, Q-E or W-Q-E work fine in most cases for escapes. The E-Q shenanigans are mostly for playmaking or just really extending a wall jump for an escape.

A good quick engage on any enemy squishy is a win for the enemy team. Don't cite something that generic as if it's an azir specific weakness. As for hard CC, he stands so far back that often you either aren't in range, or need to use something like Malphite ultimate on just him to catch him.

Now, can you stop whining as if he's an unplayable champion when he's clearly still a strong pick if you can just take the time to actually learn him, beyond the simple and stupid style of jumping on assassins and bruisers to beat them in fights, that you seem to want to work out as if that's a fair thing.

It makes it seem like you don't care about the champion being healthy for the game or having an identity and just want a free win with an overloaded Kit, which Azir had on release (maybe still now but I can't say) along with tons of bugs.