Talk:Swain/@comment-24663301-20150815132327/@comment-26198257-20150921184428

When he said `low ratio`he meant the ratio between base damage and Ap scaling I am pretty sure. Since at last rank it takes 450 ap to double his ult DPS  running flat pen would be very strong on his ult. But I agree his base skills get a lot more of thier power from ap scaling than base damage so it depends on if his damage is weighted on his ult or base skills. Or we could just math. Mathing at lvl 18 gives:

Full rotation: [(255 + 240 + 235) + (90% + 70% + 80%)]* 1.2

= (730 + 240%) * 1.2  ->(304 ap to double)

8 second ult channel = (360 + 80%) *1.2 + 360 + 80%

300 ap -> 730 + 720 = 1500 *1.2 = 1800

(360 + 240) * 1.2 + 600 = 1320  --> 1320:1800 (3120)

Enemy has 50 MR --> 3120 * 0.66667 = 2080

Comparing ap quints to pen quints 15ap or 6.03 pen

43.97 mr = 0.6846 --> 0.6846 *3120 =  2167.12

15ap --> 3120 + (240% + 80%)  * 1.2 + 80% = 3189

50mr --> 3189 * 0.6667 = 2215.

So AP is better against most teams. I used an 8 second window because all spells are up for another rotation after 8 seconds so this is the single target damage per rotation. Most melee champs have 50> mr at 18 before items and flat pen is less effiecent per point of mr on the target so outside of the adc everyone on the otherteam will be 50>mr.

I should redo the math with pen boots. Stacking pen against low mr significantly increases the effect. But it would work out to a 20-25% damage increase with pen boots and the 15 from eyes of pain.