Talk:Gragas/@comment-4114531-20110816063823/@comment-67.100.232.170-20110823145723

On the first build, you're overshooting the cdr max. Frozen heart + lucidity + max cdr masteries = 44%. Trade the boots for sorcs or mercs (or ninja for all phys) and get cdr runes. 39.85% = 40% for all anyone can notice.

For the second build, get mp5/level seals & that will do a lot for your mid to late game mana issues. Also, hourglass? When are you going to use that? it's not like you do anything innately while you sit there, so you're just taking yourself out of battle for two seconds. You're not really waiting on a second round of abilities to come up again to use to help you escape, so it's rather wasted on you. Get a lichbane or a gunblade and explode on someone instead.

Hourglass works very well on Fiddle, who can deal lots of damage while standing idle, or Annie who it can help wait out enough time for her to get another aoe stun while her bear chows down. If you want armor, just get a frozen heart so you can pick up some decent boots. At lvl 18, you're going to do more damage with your body rush (with drunken rage on) in that build with sorc shoes' mp instead of hourglass. R damage is about the same. And obviously FH + sorc shoes gives a LOT more survivability than lucid boots + hourglass.