Talk:Riven/@comment-8733289-20131224042732/@comment-7434112-20140107155707

@U N Ovvrn Yeah... scratch that first part, I'm not sure what I was trying to mean with that, but something like, each shield has its own advantages, riven's has lots of health in that 1 ability only if she's ahead, resourcless, and has a fair scaling CD. Lee's shield has a slightly long CD, has moderate health, grants LS and SV, uses energy, requires an ally unit and dashes more than a riven. Lee's has more indirect stats than riven's, it doesn't mean her shield is completely stronger but is more upfront with what it brings (and lee requires more skill). You are bringing no proof that she'll outdamage a wukong, just saying it doesn't mean its true. His full combo uses a lot of AD and has built in armpen, it will out damage a lot of people (even if they are AA'ing).

@StarSaviour I think I had an argument with you on the lissandra page as well... Can't really tell the difference since I saw like 3 other people with that same picture.

Anyway, riven's shield plainly gives health. Lee's shield gives lesser health but scales as well, you know why? '''Because it has lifesteal and spellvamp which affect his opter abilities. '''Lesser shield strength for more sutain, which riven's lacks in many ways (nerfed health regen). And yes, she is resourcless. But late game, resources aren't a problem (except for energy suers) (took late game because you always refer to that part of the game :/). I have never seen or played lee with AS, the one from his passive is more than enough. True, it requires ally units but with the trinket system, it makes access to it possible at lvl 1-18. Skill with using it is another factor separate. And completely disregarding the LS/SV part... its a part of his kit and makes him survive while in the middle of a fight. In lane, outsustain riven, in teamfights, keeps him alive. And please don't say something like "it doesn't regen anything close to riven's shield". The Insec kick uses W or flash to get into position, just landing a Q is not enough to kick a carry into your team. Either Q - Flash/W - Kick, W - Flash - Kick or something along those lines, and its an initiate at that time. Can also be used in lane to get into the opponent's face when he is lasthitting and guarantee a Q hit.

Frozen heart = Completely unviable item for her, mana is a waste of a stat to get for known reasons. And I already said like 2 times why I don't like SV or Lucidity boots on her, can you please not ignore things when you please? As a final note on that matter, SV is getting its CDR reduced in the PBE to 10% and if you get all the items you mentioned, you'd be over the CDR cap at present. Personal prefernce for the CDR point, again, I prefer CC reduction since CC becomes a greater threat to a riven, if you get bursted before you can even use the shield and its useless IMO.

._. I didn't compare it to blue ezreal, I just used 2 items which are effective on him since they proc off of his Q's. Blue ezreal would mean even spirit of the elder lizard which became more of a jungle item with the changes. And even and Ezreal built with Iceborn and Muramana can deal a lot of damage as well as keep himself safe (more lategame-ish).

Really, arguing about something like mana sustain.... he gets mana sustain as well as mana from the 2 items I mentioned before. In any fight, he'd have enough mana to sustain himself.

Riven's E is not an engage, it crosses 325 units and shields herself. Its not gonna start a fight from just that. It would require a flash-E-W to be able to engage with Riven (needs proper timing in order to do that and also to find the opportunity). Riven is more for following up on engages. Lee's engage also shows that he needs timing and positioning, but he can go directly for the carries if he has that opportunity.

I had said the things relating to wukong because U N Ovvrn had said that wukong would never be able to outdamage a riven. Her shield would be able to mitigate SOME of the incoming damage. CC can't stop wukong's ult, it'll still continue so while she is starting her burst, she'd be close to death.

I'm pulling a Leyrann? No idea what that means, but I had said that because wukong doesn't seem like a bursty champion but can 100-0 squishies in seconds. Stating a fact not known to many is being informative, and was a pretty dumb thing to address.

The fact that wukong has the option of going tanky DPS, assasin-ish or even full tank. Riven lacks any of those options, its either get fed or go home.

The kiting and 5v4 paragraph was in regards to U N Ovvrn, who didn't really say anything to that.

Pretty bad Tl;dr. I have thrown numerous points which you completely ignore and say you "debunked" it. You said riven's shield was OP because it scaled with AD, failed to tell why lee's shield was not OP since even that scales. Didn;t mention a blue ezreal as well, so a misconception and bias on your part. Finally, lack of understanding in various kits was seen in your points, i've made my points clear enough to understand but you fail to try to understan it yourself and say it is coherent. Anywho, this is gonna be my last comment here because i'm busy and can't spend a long time in trying to open your eyes to what you blind youself to.