Talk:Twisted Fate/@comment-4501291-20111004175100/@comment-4501291-20111004222306

1. So you generally gather less than 95 cs?

- I generally gather more than that but many people also gather less. Sacraficing a characters passive for the equivanelt of 1 dragon kill is not worth it.

2. A trade-off for how strong his burst is

- Many characters burst equally well without having to trade off anything for it

3. He's an assassin, they're meant to be squishy, it's a trade off.

- He's an assassin with no escape mechanism. Another character would preform better. Again "a trade off" where other characters dont have to lose enarly as much to gain.

4. It's one of the longer ranged pokes in the game, scales well and is on a 6sec cd. Not sure what more you could ask. Also, the mana cost is negated by Blue card.

- greatly outpaced by urgot, kog maw, morgana, tristana, etc...

5. This ability makes TF interesting, you're just slow.

- "you're just slow" is a crap excuse for bad design.

6. Weaker than Yi's? You realize it's a 155damage scaling proc every fourth attack. This averages to 38.75(Scaling!!) damage an attack with 15%AS and 15%CDR... vs Yi's 35flat damage(or 70 for a brief time).

- Yi's passive ability, double strike, works out better and Yi gets it for free. Wuju Style is the skill and is a flat damage increase per hit, which also stacks with his passive (passively) and does 4x damage when activated and on his passive.

7. Noc and Tf are two completely different champions, and TF's ult also has some utility to it. For instance, revealing stealthed champs, revealing enemies while split pushing. He can still ult from bot to mid to splitpush for his team.

- You're right, Noc is the better champ. He can jungle because his passive gives him damage and sustain, he's got a built in spell shield and attack speed boost in 1 skill, he's got CC, and his ult makes ganks much more effective.

I think TF needs to be reworked by making his abilities scale with both AD and AP like other champs do these days. He needs a new passive, the spread of wild cards needs to be a tighter cone, stacked deck needs an active (perhaps the ability to store a card thus making an actual stacked deck), and his ult needs to be differentiated from nocturnes somehow. Perhaps give twisted fate a passive small radius oracle while his ult is off cooldown.