Talk:Kayle/@comment-25304344-20151123213208/@comment-24082016-20151124193735

I did very little math on these when they came out, because I glaringly thought Deathfire Touch was the best for Kayle, no contest.

If I had to break down my instinctual thought on this, then it would require the brief listing of the key elements of the abilities themselves, Kayles skillset and potential playing styles, and the items Kayle's will generally get.

Since I'm no expert on Kayle AD, I'm just going to break things down in terms of her being AP...or hybrid since that's floating some people's boat today. Just as a quick obvious note, if you're ging AD, then obviously you would pick Fervor(jk. Unless you're a hater of crit, Warlord Bloodlust is just too pretty). But that is the ONLY time you pick Fervor for Kayle. Now back to the breakdown, which will make the reasoning obvious for why I choose Deathfire.

Below I've listed the different aspects of the abilities that will ultimately decide what's best to get.

1.Procing Conditions(s)

2.Type of Damage(s)

3.Stackable?

4.Scaling

5.Min & Max damage -or- Output Examples

6.Additonal Affects?

7.What's good about it?

8.What could have been better

9.Season 6's affect on the "Meta"

First up, let's look at Fervor and answer each question.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Fervor_of_Battle_(Season_2016_Mastery)

Fervor can be proced on anything, but the damage increase is only visible on champs. That means it wont affect your lane shoving directly. It may do so indirectly if you're pulling a "Jax" and stacking up stacks before looking to engage. So this stackable ability has a minimum damage ranging from 1.32-8.46 based on lvl, and a max damage of 13.20-84.60 per hit. Most importantly, it dishes physical damage. So what makes this ability great? it works wonderfully for people who do a lot of AAs, and don't build much if any crit. It's also not AD dependant for it's damage output, so in a weird way, someone could pull off building half-assed AD and still get off on doing fairly decent AA damage. Someone like an offtank. What sucks about this? There is no AD/AP scaling, so it has a very real ceiling damage of 84.60 per hit which is reached at lvl 18. Now, 84.60 is no damage to scuff at, but it requires being at fullstacks. You're either gonna need some crazy AS, sustain, peel, or people ignoring you to pull that off. What would have been awesome is if instead of flat damage, it gave bonus AD, which would affect everything about Kayle's damage output, but the same would go for every champ in the game, and that would be quite senselessly OP. MOST IMPORTANTLY, the damage delivered is physical. So, as Kayle you get that measly 15% shred on armor(on a target you perform 5 consecutive hits on), and maybe the 7% from "Battery Blows" mastery if you're going more of an AD route(even less since percents add multiplicatively), you're still gonna be doing a fair bit less of damage against people with their armor(which naturely scales up per lvl on every champ, unlike mr), and much less on somebody who builds armor. During this Meta which early on has focused on empowering AD champs, building countermeasures to AD damage is ever more tempting. It's for all these reasons why getting Fervor is just plain stupid in my opinion, at least on a non AD focused Kayle who wont be buying any penetration.

Now, let's look at ThunderLord's Decree.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Thunderlord's_Decree_(Season_2016_Mastery)

To proc, requires 3 stacks on a targeted champ. This means you have to literally target the champ(AA/Ability) and get 3 stacks to proc its damage. It can be proced once every 20seconds per champ. So you don't have to cry if you use this burst ability on a tank instead of the fed squishy. You get a chance to proc it on everyone, as long as the stacks are performed within. The type of damage is magic, so it's chemistry with a AP/hybrid Kayle who might get some additional magic pen is pretty good. It's not stackable, and according to Wikia comments, it doesn't do splash damage. Has a minimum damage of 10-11( bonus AD under 5 and AP under 9). 5 bonus AD = +1damage. 10AP =+1 damage. So, as general markers that are easy to follow, every 50 bonus AD equals +10 damage, and every 100 AP equals +10 damage. I'll go more into overall damage after explaining deathfire and in the comparison paragraph(s). This ability is better for champs that want to spend minimal time interacting with enemies. Simply Burst and cleanup for kill, or Burst, and backout till Ability is usable again(20seconds later). In other words, champs that have high burst kill pressure are best with this, bc 20 seconds are 20 seconds to counterattack or heal back up damage. Examples would be LB, Viktor, Annie, Xerath, Zyra(although deathfire yum), and some random burst AD champ that wouldn't prefer Stormraider's surge. It's great for early game, inlane kill pressure for champs that rely on poke and/or combo rotations to output damage, but falls off in usefulness towards mid-late game.

And now the breakdown of Deathfire Touch.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Deathfire_Touch

To proc, it requires the target(s) to be hit with magic damage, meaning the splash of Kayle can proc it on a champ. Performs DOT magic damage per half second, so builds and champion kits with magic pen, DOT, spammable magic damage, and/or some form of AP dps will synergize well with this. The DOT isn't stackable, only refreshable. However, there is no cooldown on this ability, so inbetween AP damage procs, the overall damage output of this Keystone is constantly increasing for up to 3 seconds. However, to more easily get an idea of the damage output of this Keystone, we'll pretend it's getting proced only once, instead of 3 times(the 3 times you do damage an enemy to proc Thunderlord's decree once). Minimum damage 6-7(if  bonus AD is below 2, and AP is below 5) 2 bonusAD =+1 damage by end of 3 seconds. 5AP equals +1 damage by end of 3 seconds. On a bigger scale, 50 bonusAD =+25damage. 100AP = +20damage. What's good about this is, aside from it's scaling, is that it doesn't require AA, it's 0 cooldown,  and that it can easily become a true source of damage by midgame bc of it's constant availability in fights.

Comparing DT and TC

Now, instead of giving you my half-assed calculations, I'll give you guys a link that looks like slightly more math based conjectures. Found it in the comments for the Thunderlord's Decree. http://www.nerfplz.com/2015/11/which-is-stronger-deathfire-touch-or.html.

This more or less points out what I wanted to put out math wise, but I'll add something else(incase it isn't stated in this neatly written article). If you're in anyway able to produce consistent magic damage, be it DOT, very spammable magic damage abilities, or some form of AP DPS(like Zyra's plants or  Kayle's Fury), if you do 2 or even 3, then you aren't getting 3 seconds of DOT, but at least 3.5(and this is if you went crazy and got yourself at east 2.0 AS, or if you Qed and AAed within half a second). So seeing as how a lot of you are jumping on the Guinsoo Bandwagon and will be aiming to do consecutive hits, you'll be constantly procing Deathfire with the playing style you'll be using. I mean, you're on the Queen of Harrass and Kiting for God sake's. How can you not see how 0Cooldown, constant reprocing Deathfire is the obvious choice.

P.S. What's really funny is that AD champs that stack a lot of AD can get some pretty nice damage out of Deathfire Touch, as long as they have a fairly consistent way of reprocing it, for example having your AA empowered with magical damage  I haven't done the test myself, but maybe Bami's Cinder, thornmail, rune glaive, or some other item procs Deathfire Touch at a somewhat consistent and dependable rate. So in situations where the enemy team is likely to forego building a lot of Mr, it can be an unexpected scary source of damage. So full AD comps are, at least theoritcally, even more viable this season. ;-)