Talk:Jarvan IV/@comment-4900160-20150106204544/@comment-15244341-20150117155249

I'm sorry for my rudeness. It is inexcusable, and re-reading my post I realized I was pretty much over the top. I'll try to tone down my comments in the future. Thank you for calling me on it.

However, I stand by what I said. Jarvan IV as a bot lane support is pretty much a worse Leona, since he can't play from behind, which is CRUCIAL to supports. Leona just has better defensive stats, her passive is more useful if she isn't fed and, unlike Jarvan, she has a better peeling simply because she can stand by her ADC and instantly stun a Rengar (which is probably the champion that gets countered the hardest by Leona out of any "problematic" champion that I can think of) or assassin with a fast Q. Plus Leona's Ultimate is inequivocally better than Jarvan's except against no mobility champions whose flash is down. It also allows for long range initiation while still keeping a gapcloser and her stun, while JIV has to use his flag combo to jump close enough to pull an ultimate off. She does better what is required of a tanky initiatior from the support role than Jarvan does. Except deal damage, that is a point there is no denying.

I feel like it bears mentioning that new LoL players do come to this wiki to look for info, and most of them probably look at the comments section too. As such, when doing an "odd" pick recommendation, I feel people have the obligation of not presenting a "best case scenario" with all the pros and no cons to those picks. I'm pretty sure you can make really compelling arguments about 100% of the champions in LoL, leave out all the flaws and make it look as if every single one of them is a top tier pick. And then people try them out, feed and don't enjoy the game one bit and make it a crappy game for their teammates. This is aggravated bot lane since your performance affects two people, one of them being probably the single most important member in a teamcomp. I'm just saying "JIV support when you win lane is really good" is a better way of putting the argument than just listing a series of good points while skipping over any and all downsides (such as, going 21 in defense an thus having almost no mastery points in the utility tree means that unless you get fed you'll be much poorer than Braum or Leo which can afford going lighter on the defensive tree).

I've also seen imaqtpie play Urgot ADC. Wingsofdeath plays some pretty troll stuff from time to time. OddOne has played Olaf and Skarner, gotten fed as hell and still said that those champions aren't good picks. Pros in their streams will play things for fun, some far more than others. That doesn't mean that JIV support isn't viable. I've seen Scarra play goddamn Rengar support. It means that you CAN play them there and if you are good at the champion, but it does not mean that they are better than a proper support.