Talk:Aatrox/@comment-36002403-20180914083637/@comment-4091261-20180923072947

Stunlock is not really a problem with +. Just like any other tank it's the enemy wasting all their critical CC on some tank that won't even die from it all.

While engaging recklessly certainly is a possibility with this build, as with all vanguard tanks, for using there is also those who literally sit behind their backline and lie in wait so long that the enemy actually takes out the backline before  desperately makes an attempt to engage to "redeem" oneself. I see this terrible situation far more often than the scenario you pose.

I have seen the incredible strength of and I will concede that now that the cooldown has changed, the reason to use  has become quite slim. It's odd how you consider it a nerf, the greater availability is much better for his trades now than before. Even with its lower damage output, he can still chunk people to oblivion.

However, it is no exaggeration that failing to trade effectively with causes him to suffer a great deal. Without a /level lead from effective bullying, his damage output falls short of many other champions.

This leaves him in a state of moderate damage output while being much squishier. When reaching the point of being able to be killed 1v1 even when using, there is quite literally nothing else he can effectively do for a long time.

He can only switch over to a tankier build so as to try and delay his survivability enough to live even long enough to not die while participating in a teamfight. Yet with no grounds other than spending hard earned for some mediocre tankiness, the efforts needed to reach that point is quite large.

Though neither of us is on the grounds of attempting to convince each other to adopt a particular strategy. In fact, if our original poster did not state one's own issues with, I would most likely never have spoken up about at all. After all, it would be foolish to press something onto someone that just isn't working.

I mean, is it not the norm to be rushing with ? I assumed User:SionPrime already went through these motions. After all, 99% of streamers state to rush.

It seems as though the counter arguments to why doesn't work is just merely a poor application of playing as a tank. Nobody will find success with if they don't man up a bit more than the norm and stop thinking as if they are playing like a squishy person. :For example, for some reason there is an assumption that must to engage when  is ready. The reality of the matter is that you won't be waiting for that to do something, it just happens in the middle of battle.
 * Many times activated when I was a mere 10% health left and that was enough to save my ass because that extra / and the explosion out-trades the enemies who are thirsty for that kill. With  anyone has the capability to be fighting 10+ seconds, activations like this will occur often.

I don't know how people find absurd when they are rushing  and  already, such as. In fact, I daresay is much more absurd. There is absolutely no scaling attached to it. It only synergizes with, which limits his options even further. The capability of using effectively is situational, while  functions in general.

I rather consider another viable perspective of how to use  ratios. Rather than relying on penetration like Lethality, rely on. After all, the revive on his ultimate is technically a ratio. That is not negligible.

Of course his base damage is quite stellar. However, it is largely situational on how effectively is used on enemies as well as getting a level advantage eventually to make both  and  powerful. Fail in both of these departments and it's going to be an absolutely terrible experience.

This is not an imaginary scenario, it's just logic. I imagine in higher elos this is not a problem because they already know how to essentially guarantee their level advantage. In which case, this just doesn't apply simply because they don't fall behind--which is fine and dandy. Use that damage and be passive-aggressive all you want with or. It's powerful, it carries, and most importantly it can instagib.

I'm just here to elaborate on another perspective. One that doesn't rely on winning laning phase to get the job done and can even save multiple times. One that closes the gaps on his vulnerabilities and allows him to play like a real man. I respect your dedication to the meta. My dedication is elaborating on various builds to fix problems people may experience quite frequently.