Talk:Riven/@comment-24073465-20131127201625/@comment-24073465-20131129051403

@Vasagent

Considering your replies,

1) Q: Change it so that while First Jump is free, second and third require her to actually hit a unit, before they can be unlocked. What I'm looking for is a solution to stop q-spam maniacs...maybe this might not be subtle, but such a change would get the needed result...

2) I think you misread about the E...The EXAMPLE was personal, not the argument...the argument is that Riven's shield is spammable, and this spammability made it problematic in most fights...

In this chat, many people have said "Oh, but Lux/Diana/Janna/Karma/(insert AP champ with a shield here) has a much better shield in terms of HP/Duration..." What they don't realize is that most of those shield require a lot of AP (which is difficult for supports and (a little less, but still) difficult for AP mages until late or fed (and if you feed them, then you deserve to get your a** handed to you)...also, almost all of those shield run on mana, so if the person runs out of mana in a clutch moment, they're boned...Also, their shield cd are much longer than Riven's,even with 40% cdr (which not all of them actually build)...and Riven herself gets about 25% cd from brutalizer+ionian...this reduces shield cd to 4-4.5 sec (depending on if you can get blue)...as most TF last for 4-5 seconds, this means Riven can pull of two shields within 1 TF (Shield->TF->4 sec cd->shield), making her overall shield in such a scenario actually STRONGER overall than most...that's why I feel the shield should be changed...however, since most cry that the shield is the only thing that prevents you from being blown up, I'm saying have the shield also give her temporary defensive steroids...this should placate the "no tankiness without shield"....

3) I didn't mean to compare their direct ults...was just saying that I have no problem with the bonus AD amount, since it's comparable to Olaf or Vayne amounts....the reason I feel that the duration should be reduced is that due to the bonus AD of the R mixing with her spells THAT well (ie. 210 bonus AD+120 actual gives 66 AD as bonus...this means +66 HP shield, +66 AD stun damage, +138.6 total Q damage, and +99 aa damage(66+33 enhanced from passive); which DOES make a difference)...and saying that because they have AS, they'll make better use of their timers than Riven is iffy...Olaf has to run for the AD in those 6 seconds and most people with an escape can still get away...plus, even with a 40% CDR build, his damage output when Ult is up is nowehre near Riven's (Despite it being true damage, the 80 AD means he gets 32 true damage...even with some optimal "AD+defense" build, it means that his total damage output in 6 seconds= ((340+32)*2+damage of 2-3 aa (about 600; mitigated to 350 or less by armor)+1 axe throw (about 430-450; mitigated to 270 by Armor)=about 1400 damage...maybe 1700 if you get another axe off before Ragnarok ends)...Considering Riven builds ONLY bonus AD, her total damage in a single ult duration, even without windslash is a lot more...

The reason I say that the speed or cone area might be reduced is that because of Riven's AOE, she can kill more than one at a time, and then just hop,skip, jump away...plus, it doesn't do good that many Rivens often use Windslash almost right after W...with a 0.75 stun and less than enough time to recover from it, the ult becomes almost unavoidable...and don't say "oh, but you could flash/dash out of it"...given that it's range is 900 while flash is 400, if you're not at the edges of the cone, you can't really flash anywhere...