Talk:Twisted Fate/@comment-9705522-20140318202219/@comment-24496127-20140320001740

U N, you need to remember that there's more to pushing than just wave clear. Karthus kat and leblanc can push a lane, but if they mange to take a turret than the enemy team was outright ignoring them for at least like three minutes. And while heimer CAN push turrets fast with his turrets, his wave clear is kinda meh unless you use said turrets to wave clear. Which makes him pretty vulnerable to getting ganked; have you ever seen a heimer splitpush? He stays in lane and zones/slowly pushes enemy to tower. Not saying he can't but its generally not the best idea.

I suppose you're right with the ad champs and ziggs, but even then they need to be in melee range(except ziggs), and all but the kha and talon need more than one abilty to completely clear a wave. Even then it can be argued that upgrading w on kha is like going ap leona. Sure it works, but your other choices are all better.

And lastly, addressing VeneficousFerox. I agree, there's NO way that a tf will kill a fizz 1v1 unless he manages to poke him down and get some surprise flash stun q ignite combo. However, as tf, if you just wave clear than walk back as fizz desperately auto's minions to try and clear(or burns his e, in which case thats even better). Fizz won't be able to kill you unless you get caught by a flash or something, or the jungler can dive you with fizz. Both of which are hard to do or have a chance of backfiring, The best part is, a fizz that's not fed falls off hard. So just deny him kills and make him farm under tower and you'll definitely come out of lane stronger.

Sorry for the wall of text.