Talk:Tryndamere/@comment-4636093-20180423110823/@comment-33848765-20180426154355

TAG, shouldn't beginner friendly champion have pretty much brain-dead kit? They should be as easy as can be, and their playstyle should be forgiving.. They shouldn't penalize players for making mistakes, as new players want to learn the game's overall concept, they want to focus on understanding of how you play the game and not to focus on champion that they want to play. Skillshots are not something that new players get, so when Riot make one of his strongest abilities a skillshot, it pretty much denies that champ as beginner friendly. Changing point-and-click mechanic for range skillshot leaves too much space for mistakes. If you miss it, as i said, you are denied a big part of sustain, crowd control, and pretty often leaves player vulnerable to the opposite team. Making its ability like this is counter-intuitive. I feel like Riot doing this rework tried to do too many things at the same time. Make new ww, make him jungler for beginners, but still make him fun for experienced players, and IMO that didn't went too well.

Moryiama, the only problem about "mocking shout" is the name of this skill. I think that changing the name would solve the problem. If u think about it, this skill is interpretation of intimidating enemy, imply that you are stronger and scarier than your opponent. I suppose that fits really well Tryndamere as a barbarian. As for the ap scalings, i dont have any arguments as to why warrior should have them, but that doesnt mean i want them gone, quite opposite actually. Tryndamere is now often paired with guinsoo rageblade, so this ap that he builds by buying it is not wasted. Ap scalings is what makes this champ truly flexible, you can build him pure ad or as and stick to the original build path, but you can build him ap as well and by adapting different build and playstyle, you are able uncover new side of the same champion, which for me counts as the most unique experience i could get. And though he has ap scalings, they are not necessary for his main ad/crit build, they are only one of possible ways to increase his dmg output and healing. That is what i want from this game, flexibility that makes up for simple mechanics. Beautiful example of this flexibility was shown by Rekkles and his Ezreal build. There are champs that have pure ad/pure ap scaling, we do not need more of them. For example Riven is pure ad champ, and her build is pretty set in stone, cuz her kit revolve around making combos and she needs that ad/lethality for that to work. That's why she has simple scalings. Trynda is completely versatile with his build, as his kit allows him for many different playstyles. I even played him as a tank support at some point and it still worked xD. I dont know why people see that as a bad thing. There are many ways to enjoy the game, and I find it most satysfying to dig in that simple mechanics only to find more and more ways you could play one and the same champ.

Another thing is Riot's rework's, cuz i'm not sure if they would handle that rework well. As TAG said, not all rework's are bad or erasing champ's identity, but i dont know for sure that Trynda will treated like that. I have two main issues being Urgot's and Irelia's reworks. I don't like Urgot's rework, mainly because under the shroud of VGU, they did a complete 180 on him, despite that only real problem could be his appearance. And yes, I met many people that said Urgot was bad. Everytime i met them, i purposefully picked Urgot, and carried their butts through the game. Old Urgot wasn't bad, and i know that because i proved it many times. The problem were memes, prejudice and all the things that make ppl hate something for nothing in particular. Instead of making him look better, they fell to vox populi, and decided to shoot two birds with one stone. As they couldn't handle the idea of tanky adc (or tanky adc caster to be precise), they swapped it making him tank with a slightly higher range, though its range is like its playrate, pretty abysmal. That, and making him rely on tanky items only, making him not scale well with other build-paths, and of course killing his other scalings, killed the most original concept for the chamion in the game. Now he is only called "ranged" tank, but feels nothing like it. His kit revolves around his legs only, making him very situational champion. Though its been nearly a year after that rework, i still think they should revert him back to his old self, and release the new one as an independent champion. As for Irelia's rework, this is pretty simple. Riot intended to "modernize" her, they intended to keep her identity, but actually they changed her completely and changed her into a hybrid of fiora and katarina. This two reworks pretty much did what they shouldn't, and that's why im against Tryndamere's rework. Im not confident about Riot's ability to rework champs properly. Reworks like that should be done when champion is struggling with his kit, when despite all factors, champs can't stay relevant in the game.

Lesdin, though i appreciate your POV, i don't agree with one thing. You say that his kit isn't very skill expressive, and that's the problem. Why do Tryndamere have to be skill expressive. Tryndamere is a champ with simple kit, ideal for beginners, he has his issues for sure, but he has also very forgiving playstyle. I do not think that simple champs need to be skill focused at all. That's like making Master Yi a skill expressive champ. "Many of the values and mechanics he rely on are static" What's wrong with that? And what did you exactly mean by "computational variance between his extremes that is dictated by not being bad at a video game in general". If u could use more simple words, i would be very grateful. English is not my native language, and not using it for 4 years doesn't help me either.

Sora, thank you for agreeing with me. I'd like to point that im actually playing him mainly in jungle though ^^"

Endnote about Riot plans: Riot said many times that they want to deliver unique experience. In my opinion, if they truly wanted it, they would stick to making new champs, instead of changing old but still strong ones.