Talk:Katarina/@comment-26227836-20150611001640/@comment-9705522-20150615095826

Well, yes, but there are several issues with your idea. One, the bounce range isnt that high. In order for it to bounce to the backline they need to be really close to each other. And on top of that, its not even much damage. And if you are talking about laning, no, you cant farm and poke at the same time. Because a, its going to screw your farming up quite often, b, has a rather low range, and c, can be abused by the enemy.

No, looking at damage is the only thing thats worth doing. Because thats all Katarina does. And of course Veigar does more damage than Annie, he is mostly single-target, she is mostly AoE. Its the same reason you wont compare Katarina to Leblanc.

Actually, Katarinas E has the same range as any of Annies abilities (try saying that 3 times fast). Minus, actually, the Q. And yes, Katarina can wardjump, but then she does even less damage, and thats usually an edge-scenario. Not worth basing a champions worth on.

Death recap, oh boy. Here is the thing. 1, the thing is very inaccurate. Riot themselves said that it is. Its buggy, clunky, and the way it counts damage is strange, and often the damage counted is wrong. On top of that, you have the problem that, if Katarina is really fed, she is going to do a lot of damage. Still less than an Annie would, but you cant compare the 2 in a single match, for obvious reasons. So this is hardly an argument. As I said, the only thing that matters is the math, not what you see (as that is often subjective and skewed).

They fill the same role. Their MO is mostly the same. The difference being, Katarina is also focused on clean-up, Annie is also focused on CC. Annies damage is reliable, causing her maximum damage to be lower, and her minimum damage to be higher. Easy thing.

No, those arent facts, those are your beliefs. Not only are they demonstrably wrong, but you are also in a minority with them. A very vocal minority, yes, but most people dont agree. Hence why Katarina is neither picked a lot, nor banned a lot, outside of Brazil and Korea.

But, to explain why you are wrong. First off, "balance problem". This is an open secret. Katarina has been balanced for a long time now. She is a pubstomper, yes, but not imbalanced. Think about it this way. If she was, how comes she is amongst the by far least picked champions in competitive League? She is literally as popular/contested as Poppy. Poppy of all champions.

Now, you might say "oh, win rate". No. Win rate is not directly indicative of power. There are a lot of factors, and Katarinas above average win rate can be easily explained by factors other than power. Or "but Riot nerfed her" Riot does a lot of stupid nerfs. They nerfed Kha in 4.3 for no reason. This is not a balance thing, its often to appease vocal minorities, like you. So yes, not a balance problem. We could also go over her kit and damage, but I kinda already did that.

Now "not fun to play against". For you maybe. But I, and a lot of other people, actually enjoy playing against her. Simply for the feeling of power. For the feeling of "Katarinas worth is decided by my hand. If I stop her ult, I shut her down". Its a level of control you have for close to no champion. In fact, Id say no champion can provide that feeling as strongly as Katarina.

Now, Q poke. Uh, its worse than literally all other poke? Even with Ludens (which is a bad first item), it still sucks. And all other mages do it better. So, this is not an argument. At all.

Actually, she is quite easy to keep track of. Partially, because of how obnoxiously loud her ult sound is. Or how obvious the whole spinning thing is. And until she kills you, she cant jump. So, she jumps in, her ult is obvious, you stun her. Now, the other argument. "but what if you used CC???". 3 things. 1, you will likely have more than 1 CC ability in your team (since, yknow, only 30 champions dont have one). 2, sometimes you gotta set priorities. Perhaps Graves dying is less bad than your team getting blown up. 3, that same argument can be used for any champion, so its moot anyway.

Oh, it doesnt even matter if her team is there. Thats why ignore it, because all it does is the following: allow her to get the resets quicker. But, as I established, without her ult it doesnt even matter, because the max amount of damage she can get (keep in mind, max), is still lower than other mages. It all comes down to "can you stop her ult"? And in that case, the only situation in which you cant, literally the only, is when you are stunned. And when everyone with a stun in your team is stunned themselves, you made one hell of a mistake. So, again, mistake abusal applies.

It doesnt matter what her team does. The only thing that matters is what your team does. You have it all in your hand. If you fail to use that, you might lose, but you only lost because you failed. If Sejuani manages to ult and stun all of you while Katarina is in range, you failed. And lastly, if your team got poked down, and then somehow Katarina manages to get close enough, then yes, she will clean up. Thats her point. So will Kha, widely considered to be pretty bad, and Akali, widely considered to be pretty bad. So even that is not an argument.

Katarina is balanced. In fact, if she werent so good at abusing Solo Qs mistakes, she would be weak. So weak in fact, that she would be barely played. You know, like in competitive league. The only thing that keeps her good in solo Q is that people dont use their ability to single-handedly make Katarina useless nearly enough. However, if they did, if every player reacted at the minimum time he easily can 100% of the time (for most people thats half a second, for some its shorter, for some its longer), then you could expect Katarina to straight up vanish. Be picked less than she already is (she is picked only on average right now), all the way down to Urgot level, before he got good.