Talk:Riven/@comment-33536623-20140127122040/@comment-10958525-20140130163103

"So because I discuss game mechanics, the math, and facts about a champion then therefore logically I must be a complete noob with said champion... Oookay?"

Man, it's almost like you enjoy not being nice, but let's just forget about this, now back on topic.

Why are we not taking Garen's passive into account? Riven health regen is very low, and Garen wins trades by simply regenerating hp after them. Garen's also hard to counterbuild since his ulti damage is magical while Riven, on the other hand, deals exclusively physical damage with her kit. In this matchup Riven needs to build armor penetration and life steal if she wants to trade efficiently (and AD, obviously) while Garen can just grab some high armor/hp item and be good with it (while still dealing considerate damage). The defensive mastery tree being so prominant furtherly push towards this kind of lane situation.

Garen's Q also has a shorter CD than Riven's Q. Garen's E also has a starting CD of 13 seconds, the same as Riven's Q, which decreases to 9 by level 5 (Riven's Q stays 13 at all levels though). Riven's E is also on a higher CD until it gets 3 points. All in all Riven has greater vulnerability windows. Garen can play slightly aggressive and force her to miss out on farm. If Riven decides to fight back and somewhat manages to bait Garen's Q hence getting a clear greater damage output Garen can just, as said above, regen that health while Riven doesn't. After a couple of trades like this Riven gets in a dangerous zone for Garen's ult.

You also argued about Garen's scaling worse than Riven into lategame, and this is true. However, this post was about Riven's counter, and considering lategame scenarios, where it's just teamfights, it's silly in the counters regard.

I have played this matchup a lot of time (though admittidley I haven't used Garen much) and in my experience if the Garen is competent he does definitley win the lane (Garen's skillfloor is also lower than Riven). If you really want some number, so that I don't sound like I'm just imagining things,  according to lolking statistics Garen has a greater winrate than Riven in the matchup at all elos, monthly, weekly, and daily.