Talk:Lissandra/@comment-9008617-20130503213021/@comment-9008617-20130509162536

"AAArgh! Is Kennen going to be intiating? No. After focus has been taken from the enemy team would you run around and using spells in conjunction."

So in 3's or 5's, you think the enemy team's going to be stupid enough to use up all their CCs and focus the tank and leave Kennen absolutely the fck alone? Really??

But that wasn't even the point, read the actual post before you make another strawman argument. I said that the difference between Liss and Kennen is that Liss' ult is instant and Kennen's ult is not an instant stun and requires him to be dangerously inside the enemy lines for a much longer period of time. Do you really have nothing to counter with so much so that you have to resort to strawman arguments? lol cute.

"6-4 is the values from level 1-5 skill points used in it genius. Did YOU even read?"

Question:  Why are you suddenly factoring in Lissandra's level 1-5 base CDs and not Kennen's? Again, biased comparison but I've come to expect very little from you. Oh well.

"Karthus's wall makes movement speed reduction if you pass through it and makes the enemy have to run at its sides or back, making Q's easier to land."

In other words it's not a guaranteed slow and if they aren't slowed you're still just guessing/predicting where to put Q down as Karthus. Again, you fail to address the point about how is that more efficient than Lissandra's much more forgiving 2-4 second Q spam which has a built-in slow, unmitigaged damage, and can wave clear. But naw naw, your point is sooooooo much stronger than mine. ;)

"Thanks for bringing in range, base damage and CD as well."

Karthus' Q is 150 range longer, 25 base damage higher, and has the 1 second base CD. But however, the damage is halved when hitting more than one target, has 5% less AP scaling than Lissandra even when it's a single target, has no slowing effect, and has that lovely 0.5 second delay.

"I borught up AD Kennen because you told "You're still a squishy literally running into enemy champs and you can't even AA while doing so.". Grow up and accept your mistakes -_-"

I don't understand what your point is? I said Kennen's squishy so you brought up AD Kennen to which I pointed out that AD Kennen can't AA while using his E to which you responded... what? Grow up and accept puberty. And also your mistakes.

"Ult them, have a lesser impact if a teamfight were to occur (given CD of 130-80). Flash away, viable. Root them, as you said a ranged champ, you would have to close in the distance before running/E'ing/flashing away. And even though E has a high base damage and AP ratio, using an escape to add to a fight can lead to being killed without the escape or burning flash. Best case scenario, W and hope to outrun them (but with 325 base MS, highly unlikely)."

There's called map awareness. You should get it. If you're constantly being ganked everytime you're in lane to the point that everytime you're in lane you have ranged ADC/APC within your W range then you're probably doing it wrong. You have to be pretty damn bad at map awareness and positioning if you refuse to ever use Lissandra's E to farm cs or damage/poke enemy champs. But hey, feel free to limit yourself to only using E as an escape.

"Here's a list of all the AA ranges in the game, if you are trying to burst an ADC, there are 5 possible ADC who need to get closer to damage you, 8 who are in the 550 range and everyone else is above. 3 of which have abilities to enhace their AA range. You would NEED to E in and ult before they can output their damage or risk getting killed by them. Q's range is at a range of 725-925~ with a CD of 6-4 and E at a range of 1050 and a CD of 24-12 (with no CDR). Q among them is the only viable one to use, seeing as E IS the escape. And having E up can be even more useful than using to do some damage which may or may not land. For example, towerdiving."

Where's the list? You can't say "here's a list" and then don't provide a list... Nor do you tell us which 5 ADCs you're referring to who need to be closer or the 8 ADC that have 550 range and isn't 550 range shorter than 725 anyways? So of about the ~15 or so ranged ADC in the game, you're saying 13 of them have shorter AA range than Lissandra's "short" Q? Well, that's not surprising since I already pointed out that her Q without even factoring the additional shattered range is only 25 range shorter than the longest AA range in the game (Cait) so I don't see what you were aiming to achieve in this post at all. ^_^"

And in regards to the abilities to enhance AA range, I sure hope you weren't referring to Twitch's ult...

Lastly, I've already addressed your naive folley in limiting your E use. But to each their own. Be 50% as strong at poking and farming cs, idc.

"I posted which champs have a better AoE slow, I didn't post their CD though. What I have been trying to educate you in is to take in all parts of her kit, not only seeing CD and CC. Damage for one is something you have failed to point out, in every post, and using every single move to damage while having none to escape with. As well as failing to categorize what type of a champion she is and a playstyle which you use. I am guessing that you play her as someone who uses Q and E from the backlines and try to find an opportunity to ult and damage the whole team but that is just an assumption from my part as well as a build path. And I have taken various examples of champs to compare their teamfighting ability and their CC. She has a lot of teamfighting capability and CC as you know, but I am reiterating this, her damage is not note-worthy. I have been trying to tell you this but your attitude shows that you are one to not even try to think from an other person's perspective."

You have posted champs which have a better AoE slow? Like who? Karthus seems to be the only one you focus on. You didn't post their CD because you knew it was a big glaring weak point compared to Lissandra's CC 2-4 second spammability.

Lissandra is not the greatest damager in the game by far but the fact you don't realize her skills actually pack quite a punch. And I have not "failed" to address her damage! LOL omg! You're the one who fails to incorporate the bigger picture as I've mentioned in the last 3 posts... LOL!!! I love how this kid is trying to say, "Nah uh, you are".

Who's been the one to tell you that Karthus' slow doesn't do damage? ME!

Which one of us has been disregarding Karthus' huge CD on his slow and the lack of damage? YOU, GENIUS, YOU! XD

Oh man, sorry, I just cried a little laughing just now. XD

Anyways, you play Lissandra however you want. If you want to just dive in every teamfight because she's just sooo short ranged then you go ahead and do that.

"Now, what does having tons of CC but lack of damage mean? It revolves around your teammates to deal a majority of the damage. Ans stun is not my favourite, I just stated that its was among the most powerful CC in the game."

You see, you keep telling yourself that Lissandra has a lack of damage when in fact all her skills do AoE damage that's unmitigated by number of targets. But I do agree she relies on her team just like any other champion on the team... I mean, LoL is a team game afterall so I don't see your point but that's not surprising. It's like me telling you, "The grass is greener in the summer." Mind. Blown.

"So, farming without E = being able to farm better? Grow up, you still have to AA to get most of the creeps. Using Q,W or E is not always viable because of mana consumption.... Map awareness isn't always going to help as well... Her glacial path is very low CD at MAX LEVEL, as is many other escapes. O_O you tell that I can't see the bigger picture? You have been complaning about her kit this whole time and now says that it is balanced. Make.Up.Your.Mind."

. . . . . .When did I say farming without E is better? Can you even read? I've been making the case for the complete OPPOSITE! Oh mai gawd... Go back to school mang. Finish Grade 2 then come back to me.

Even Ezreal has to AA to get most of his cs but are you really going to argue that Lissandra's kit doesn't allow her to clear waves or farm faster? Really? You're going to do that? Really?

Yeah, map awareness is highly over-rated, brah. XD

Her glacial path has a high CD at level 1 anddd as in many other escapes/gap closers they too have high CDs at level 1, what's your point? Ezreal's infamous arcane shift is 5 seconds shorter CD at level 1 than Lissandra's glacial path at level 1 but both scale down to 11 and 12 seconds respectively at level 5. And although Ezreal can reduce his CD by a few seconds with Q spam, Lissandra is strictly AP and AP gear often has CDR bonuses which AD Ezreal will not have as much.

I never said her kit is balanced... My gosh, learn to read. I told you to look at her entire kit because you have a knack for looking at her Q's 28% slow and not the damage, the spammability, the range, the waveclear, or anything else and simply arguing that 28% slow isn't as big of a slow as Nasus 95% slow... Clap.. clap... clap.

Nor do you ever look at the full kit during a fight, you thought it was brilliant that you discovered that Lissandra's W isn't as viable against other ranged champs and you patted yourself on the back for that totally disregarding her 3 other skills.

Seriously, don't try to call me out on the exact same things I've been calling you out for for the past 3-5 posts. You're just embarassing yourself.

"And i'm prety sure your 12 year old nephew is smarter than you."

Yeah, no. Prety sure your a bit slow.