Talk:Ivern/@comment-24971427-20180527125549/@comment-29964258-20180528013711

The same is true of tibbers and I belive morde's ghost (It has a ton of weird interactions) although to be fair, ivern is a jungler whereas morde and annie aren't. My main problem with it is that although daisy has a higher health pool than tibbers (50-750)+50%AP more than tibbers, tibbers regenerates health (not entirely sure why they removed daisy's and not tibbers, i really think it should have been just a lot slower regen, or maybe less reduced but conditional ie:only healing in the jungle), and tibbers is useful after annie dies. If ivern builds straight AP, sure daisy is a beast, but especially before ivern gets huge AP, nothing stops assassins or long range ADCs from ignoring daisy and killing ivern, causing daisy to instantly vanish. A 4k health daisy with 200 AD is a lot easier to deal with when you can cause it to disappear by bursting a 2200 HP, low resist mage (sure ivern can zhonya's, but unless the rest of his team is able to collapse on him, which isn't always the case, especially if he is out enough for an assassin to jump on him, he's still gonna die.)  and if you hang back in fights, to make it harder for them to reach you and order daisy from afar, it is harder to impact the fight in ways other than daisy, and if an assassin hops walls or gets through the melee, your team will find it hard to disengage and assist you.

And if you get tanky items yourself, you are harder to kill, but all of your abilities are less impressive, as nothing scales with tank stats (except your passive's flat hp cost taking less % of your max health, but that's not much to worry about late game). So going full AP requires good vision (which i find my teammates always lack (although I am a support so my vision score is pretty much guarenteed to be higher)) so that you can stay clear of danger while playing basically a low mobility azir, staying in q range and popping into e range periodically (W's empowered AA range is too close, that's dashing range, and the people with dashes are the people who are going to pop you), and you need to be very careful with your E on cooldown, as the shield is the main way you are going to resist being popped by assassins.

Siphoning money from AP into tank is a better build, although is also harder to manage. standard tank/ap items have some issues with ivern, as starting rod after a jungle item will result in a later rod (not a bad item if you expect the game to be long though). Abyssal mask requires you to be close to get the full effect, perhaps closer than comfortable without siphoning more money into tank, which you could do easily if you keep the aura on people. Zhonya's, although not bad, doesn't give health which is important as an early stat to help with his early clear. As ivern's abilities also provide CC, he can maximise use of liandry's without having to get a rylai's (although rylai's) would let daisy's auto's slow, which makes it easier for him to get three hits off. However, although these have decent health-AP ratios, neither gives resists, which are very very good.

And of course, with such good AP scaling, and abilities that don't quite scream "tank" building straight tank ivern will result in baffled teammates and a sub-par tank. (basically the only useful part will be a few daisy knockups and tree-sin plays) . Don't play iven straight tank

On a mostly unrelated note, does anyone know what daisy's tether is, if any?

On a more unrelated note, does anyone know what tibber's tether is, if any?

On an almost entirely unrelated note, Taric's a pretty fun support