Forum:Ability Details, something needs to be done

Some of you may remember that I brought this up on the old(new) forums and it sort of just died after a bit of discussion. I am bringing this up again and this will be the last time. Something must be done regarding ability details pages and the most logical thing is to merge them with the main champion pages.

Here are 2 examples of my proposed idea when it comes to merging:

Lux (has work in progress ability videos implemented)

Morgana 01:49, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

 * I remember way back when the whole point of the Ability Details project was to provide more information on abilities and provide a small visual clip of the ability. However, Sam, who started the project no longer held a desire for it. I agree with Neon in that they should be merged with the champion's main pages. "Ability details" is exactly what they are, details, which can be easily shown with Neon's examples. I support Neon's proposal. 05:16, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure everyone had been on board with merging the ability details page with the main champion page. The only issues there was I recall was how the exact template would work, but seeing Neon's super awesome formatting of it which doesn't take much additional space when not needed, while still seemingly looks elegant enough, I would support it. ClariS (talk) 05:29, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * This seems like a much cleaner and efficient way to merge what are essentially two facets of the same page, especially since most of the info on the Ability Details article is redundant for every champion. I support this fully. Also, you misspelled Lux's Binding Light's targeting type as "Collusion linear skillshot". :P --Willbachbakal (talk) 06:42, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed the collusion, thank you for pointing it out :3 02:52, June 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * FWIW, I think the way you combined them looks great! Only suggestion would be for pages that have videos, maybe the video should be scaled so that the right edge lines up with the text margins. Good job! --Remmii (talk) 16:10, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * I need to get Bryght or Proton or someone smart to fix it for me since I have no idea what I'm doing. 16:13, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Can be done. --BryghtShadow 14:52, June 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ah, I just got a question. These details, will they have their own page to store the information for are we going to stuff them in with the main champion pages? ClariS (talk) 20:48, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's up for discussion, how to implement them. 21:02, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe we can benefit from what cv and Data Sona have achieved, while we wait for "Semantic MediaWiki" to be installed. See also: Forum:Semantic_MediaWiki, http://semantic-mediawiki.org/. --BryghtShadow 14:52, June 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Just to get the ball rolling, by copypasting borrowing generous amounts of your template and melding it with a generic ability template I created the Abinfo template, which currently has one single field, named "description", which can hold the ability's details. I incorporated this template into two custom champion articles, inside which the template seems to work.
 * I haven't tested videos yet on the template, and so do not know how they'll work.
 * The format is similar to yours, though I incorporated item/ability icons and also added a line for, which also has unique interaction with certain abilities.
 * Currently, I have to manually add line breaks in long bits of text to prevent them from being swallowed up by the edge of the ability box. I'd love advice on how to make this automatic or, better yet, a direct tweak.
 * Manual line breaks merely for presentational purposes are bad, I tell ya! We can fix this via CSS. --BryghtShadow 14:52, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed! It's all pretty now (Well, mostly).
 * Every individual additional info section has its description text written within the article itself, which may make editing it a bit cumbersome. Perhaps it would be better to move each champion's ability details to its stats page and have the template point to the relevant section.
 * Alternatively (or in addition to the above), considering the format is very standardized, the template could benefit from more intelligent fields, such as a dedicated field for targeting type, interaction with item X, and so on.
 * Currently, I'm adding the additional info section at the end of the description field of each ability box. Ideally, if this becomes mainstream the ability box template could be modified to hold an additional info field (or multiple fields detailing different bits of additional info). --Willbachbakal (talk) 21:40, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Did everyone suddenly lose enthusiasm in this? I may write a blog post later to gather attention to this forum section, but for now here's the update on the template I was working with: I added in a number of additional fields (targeting type, interaction with X object or ability...) to standardize its format and, thanks to Bryghtshadow, they also disappear when not called upon. Aside from an image/video file field I'm trying to figure out, my template is capable of summarizing any ability's details and encapsulating it under the ability's description on the Champion page. A few questions:
 * First off, how is my template? I haven't gotten any feedback so far, and so I'm pretty much working blind here. Is it good enough for the mainspace? What could be improved? Is the overall format good, or should it be changed?
 * A subset of the above question, but how to add in an optional field for image/video files? As in, I want to add in a field where you type in the name of a file, and it'd embed it automatically within the section.
 * Are there any plans to change Ability Details on the mainspace? I haven't heard much on the subject at all, especially not from the admins.
 * If we were to hypothetically implement this template, would it be better to add the information directly to the main champion article (at the risk of clogging it), or to add the information to the Champion Data page (which would make it difficult for new users to edit) and link from there? I'm personally more in favor of the latter, but that would also imply editing the current Ability Info template to add a new field for the ability detail minisection. --Willbachbakal (talk) 16:41, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Personally I think the information should be added directly to the main champion article. Besides the concern that new users would have a harder time editing if it was in Champion Data, it would be easier to work with because it's more similar to current way of having the Ability Details page under a champion's directory "/Champion/Ability_Details". It would sort of keep the ability detail info "closer" to the main article, if that makes sense.
 * Clogging shouldn't be a major issue as long as good formatting is kept when pages are edited. Hypercarrot (talk) 19:01, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

User:NeonSpotlight/Ability_Details/Soraka

This is the template Willbachbaka made using Soraka as an example. You can press the edit button and look at the source to see what the source looks like when put into the page as opposed to the two examples I provided originally which use separate pages to hold the ability details. Personally, I don't think it's very clogged/bloated, as long as we format it properly (including adding the space between abilities that I added) and it solves the issue we have with implementing it.

I am beyond awful when it comes to coding things so when it comes to implementing a file option I have no answers but it would greatly help with implementing the ability videos that I have on the Lux page. 20:39, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Implement pl0x.  01:46, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) Your example shows that the ability info conflicts with the "description2" field, in this case removing the information for the second part of Soraka's Infuse. Shouldn't a "description_ability_details" field be added to Template:Ability_info to accomodate this? Hypercarrot (talk) 17:25, July 15, 2013 (UTC)

User:Emptylord brought up an interesting idea of implementing a trial version of the ability details integration on Lucian's page. I have gone ahead, using Willbackbaka's template, updated Lucian's page using the same method I used with Soraka (all the information on the champ page). Hopefully we will receive positive feedback on the matter and garner a little more attention to the project. 04:16, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

IDK if I did this wrong, I'm a noob at talk pages. I'm gonna say I don't like the idea.

The ability details page is there for a reason. You want the main page to be succinct and to the point, simply illustrating the champ's characteristics. Then, for more depth, you can go to the AD page.

Putting ADs onto the main page just ruins it, as well as making it ugly (so much for "sleek").

The Stats List
I personally think the lifesteal, rylais, spellvamp, etc, needs to look less... ugly. Perhaps in a table, so the title column (eg spellvamp) and info column (eg one-third) are flush with each other. I don't think I've achieved it, but something more in this direction:

^That does look good. Though I think if the targeting stuff was also in a table, it would look better, sort of like this rough mock-up:

I added the "affected area" field for clarity, especially in special cases like Lucian's Q, which is a single target ability but damages in an area of effect. Also added more to the targeting field, since some spells can only target champions and some can target any unit.


 * That does look much better. I'll work it into my template after this ARAM game. Emptylord (talk) 18:16, July 18, 2013 (UTC)