Thread:Tesla Effect/@comment-24268958-20160112175109

Hey Tesla, so I wanted to discuss something with you pertaining to champion relationships as they're listed on the background pages. Tl;dr I don't agree with listing all of these relationships in the way you've presented, and I'd like to elaborate as to why so that maybe we can figure out if there's a better way of going about this, or if I'm just plain wrong. I dunno yet. So going case by case:

- Hecarim having Kalista and Illaoi as rivals, while understandable based on Shadow and Fortune, I personally would say shouldn't be there. In Kalista's case it's likely Hecarim doesn't remember Kalista and what he did to her, as from his perspective his betrayal of her wasn't all that important; what came later was. It's like the old Monty Python quote that I'm about to butcher "For you it was the most important day in your life, but for me it was tuesday" or something to that effect. Likewise Illaoi beat back Hecarim with Nagakabouros's power, but that doesn't mean Hecarim all of a sudden has a vendetta against her. Hecarim probably just wouldn't care.

- Miss Fortune and Lucian having Hecarim as a rival. Again I get the negativity between the two, especially for MF, but they met once, interacted personally for less than a minute, and know next to nothing about each other. If anything MF would've pushed thoughts of Hecarim and the Harrowing aside as she focused on the coming days and what she was planning to do to help Bilgewater out. Hecarim was just one of many spectres that night and while he's definetly more stand out than the rest he's not MF's personal rival; he's just well known and feared in Bilgewater. In Lucian's case he shot at Hecarim a couple of times, and then never met him again for the rest of the night. While he probably doesn't like him, he probably also doesn't like anyone from the Shadow Isles. He's specifically a rival of Thresh because of personal reasons, and there's no such connection there with Hecarim.

- Lucian, Olaf and Miss Fortune all being allies. The main reason I don't agree with this is that "allies" implies they work together a considerable amount. As it stands that's not the case; they were more like passing ships in that night during a storm. I mean hell Lucian and MF were together for maybe an hour or more before Lucian went after Thresh, and then had a short talk before bidding each other farewell, being highly unlikely to ever meet again. Olaf met them for...half an hour? And then he jumped off of a bridge. They probably think he's dead at this point and if not, they still don't think much of him. Allies implies they work together to do things on at least a semi-regular basis, and I don't think their meet up during Shadow and Fortune really qualifies as them having that relation stuck up there on their background pages.

- Mordekaiser having Illaoi as one of his rivals. This is a situation of how champions view each other, and considering we actually haven't seen Morde's perspective on things post Shadow and Fortune, we're going off of assumptions, and mine is that he wouldn't hold Illaoi in high enough regard to see her as a rival. If anything he'd be more concerned about the magic she used, not Illaoi herself. "For you Illaoi, it was a life and death situation, but for me, it was just one of many Harrowings to come" is something I could imagine Morde saying to Illaoi.

All in all I feel like the information presented in the champion's relations tab thing should be in line with Riot's own champion relations section for the champions, because they understand the champions to such a degree internally as to be able to point out who has the strong relationships with who. While the Shadow Isles champions might not think much of Illaoi, considering she's just one woman that can be killed like any human, to Illaoi those guys are all walking talking insults to her god, which is why she has them listed as rivals. There are other examples too; Tahm Kench has a thing against yordles, but yordles have yet to show any resentment towards him. Why? Because It's Tahm with the thing against yordles, not the other way around. Veigar being left out is more a credit to him standing out from other yordles, at least from Tahm's perspective.

While some champions may not have their relationships updated yet and of course some champions are definetly friends or enemies and we know that for a fact, when adding champion relations in that aren't listed on Riot's champion pages I feel like it's important to consider the following:

1. A passing meeting doesn't make people bff's or arch enemies. Even an actual big fight that both parties are involved in doesn't do that, unless something important to these characters stories occurs within it.

2. Different champions won't view each other the same because their perspectives are varied. We have Sion listed as LeBlanc's ally on her page but would she really view it that way? And in Sion's case would he even know she had a hand in his reanimation?

Well anyway that's the gist of what I wanted to say. Basically I feel like champion relationships should stay as close to Riot's own section on that as possible except in very specific circumstances. What do you think? This has been bothering me for a few days now because I removed the relations you added because of Shadow and Fortune and then you re-added them, and I wanted to actually talk about it instead of this weird back and forth.  