User blog:Typhron/Something Something Quinn.

I made a long post about Quinn on /r/Summonerschool and playing her as an ADC as well as top (or even mid!!!!!!!!), and am just mirroring it here because reasons. It's long, it's verbose, it's the exact same thing I did for Nocturne and Karma awhile back. If this sort of thing tickles you're pickle (or you don't like it, I'm not a mod anymore I can't abuse my powah notthatIdidbeforehandbutstillaaaaa) you're welcome to add your commentary, I don't mind.

The Goods
May advice may not as sound as /u/maxhambread 's or /u/TTunnell 's, so take it with the largest grain of salt you can muster. Keeping in mind I play her as a ADC and top, but prefer her in the ADC role.

Answering your questions.

> 1) I've heard that she's not really an ADC, more of an AD assassin. I can definitely understand why, given how quickly I bursted their Ashe, so what's the optimal build for her? I built BotRK because the on-hit damage is so strong right now, Stattik Shiv because my team had weak wave-clear but I'd imagine she might do better with a Trinity Force instead, with how her E works? I built Last Whisper because armor penetration, but would Black Cleaver or Ghostblade be better for her because of the CDR? And lastly I built Zephyr, as a situational item because the MS combined with Furor boots helped me deal with the Ashe's permaslow (Though in hindsight a QSS/Mercurial Scimitar might have been better because the Ashe ult stunned me to death about 5 times). What would you change in my build? And how similar to an ADC should I build her?

Generally you want items with a heavy amount of AD due to how it scales well thanks to her passive, followed by crit and then AS afterward (attack speed doesn't make her passive proc any faster, and her W gives her a small boost to it during engages when you proc it).

To this end as an ADC: Anything that builds off a BF Sword is awesome and comes down to a judgement call, Statikk helps her wave clear (which she needs early), but if you don't need it due to your team comp you can easily swap it out for PD or something else. Last Whisper and Black Cleaver are your go to arp items when you need them (she scales really well with the CDR from Black Cleaver and the armor pen from Last Whisper is just as awesome), so it's another judgement call. Zephyr is a late game luxury item you build because a) tenacity, b) lodes of as with some slight ad, which makes W and R even more crazy since you're nearing the as cap and c) ms on an already generally fast character (the AS scaling changes made it a giant statstick, so mitigated by you only ever needing so much AS and it doesn't offer crit like the zeal series does). BOTRK goes without saying, but I'm not so sure about Trinity Force since she can't utilize it like Lucian or Vayne can. You CAN also build Hyrdra in very rare situations, but all it does is give your bird cleaves and a metric ton of AD.

As a Bruiser: Basically, there is no wrong answer as to what to build. Just know that whatever you do build you have to stick to that toward the end of the game (glass cannon or heavy AD with some health), because trying to switch gears mid game will put you way behind the enemy team no matter what.

> 2) How do I use bird form? I was using it for the movement speed boost when I was chasing down kills, and then when close, going back to human to finish off the kill. I wasn't really actually fighting in bird form.

You don't need bird form to chase since she does that pretty well with her W (sight, ms boost, etc) and clever uses of her E (vaulting off of something while close to it to close the distance, or vaulting toward an enemy to bring you in striking distance, or sometimes the odd moments they use flash while your vaulting so you cross even more distance).

What you want to do is use it in anticipation for every teamfight or before a gank whilst roaming (you can 1v1 almost anyone in valor form mid to late). Using R again for skystrike is reserved for doing as much AoE as possible or for straight up executes due it doing more damage the lower health people are (and it's short range), so you have 20 seconds to make whatever decision you want before putting the ability on it's lengthy cooldown.

And above all, try not to die in birdform. It runs through it's full duration timer while dead, so the cooldown is still just as painfully long. A death in bird form is you getting sentenced to being behind everyone else.

> 3) Obviously scouting isn't as important in ARAMs since you have a pretty good idea of where the enemy is, so I didn't use W hardly at all. In Summoner's Rift games, when do I use it for vision? (mostly in laning phase, I understand that outside of laning phase it's great for checking Baron/Dragon/etc.)

Any time your enemy baits or you aren't sure if something in the fog of war you're free to use it. It's got a heft range and is crazy good for prevent ganks bot, top or mid, and gives you more room to overextend. It will reveal any FoW within it's range, bushes and spots over walls included, so be sure to look for various areas of the map where such a wide swath of unerred vision would be awesome to use (like Ashe's E or like using Clairvoyance from times of yore). You can also use this to secure kills if someone tries to hide in the brush to juke.

Keep in mind, though: There is a visual and audio cue that the enemy can hear when you use it (although they don't know the area you can see). The Audio cue is of a much smaller range then the effect (about 500 radius pbaoe), but the enemy can hear it while you're in the FoW, and the enemy can see the visual cue at all times, like Shaco's smoke. It's great for defense and chasing, but terrible for invades. Keep that in mind.

> 4) She seems like she'd have a decent laning phase in top lane, being ranged and having a blind. Is this true, or is she actually a weak laner? What does her power curve look like? Is she strong enough that I could take ignite instead of TP or heal and not be punished for it?

Bot or top she's an amazingly safe laner, but her top safety is more due to her E than her blind. E interrupts abilities and gets 525 range away from whatever she vaulted, making her exceptionally disruptive and especially slippery. W means more vision then you can shake a stick at and Q is a nice bonus. ADC Quinn has the same utility with Vault and W, but Q gives her the ability to trade safety and P rewards her for trading and last hitting (by making it smoother) makes early armor practically useless for how much damage it does. The blind itself is especially useful 'cause of it mitigating all enhanced auto effects (Vayne and Draven's Q, Nasus and Garen's Q, Lucian and Yi's extra attack passive if they proc during such, Rengar's Q...) and gives you a 1.5 second window of freedom.

I'll go over her abilities individually later on, but her power curve is fairly consistent not unlike Draven (whlilst not being a hypercarry). The base damage on all her abilities are low, but they offer a crazy amount support she can become a threat if left unchecked. Revel in that many will underestimate you no matter what lane you're in for the time being due to her unpopularity (which is beginning to change, it seems), she thrives when you force enemies to make mistakes, capitalize on said mistakes, or both.

Ignite is overkill for Quinn, but if you feel the game will go over smoother without those safety nets feel free. Since she does good steady damage and good burst nothing short of a well timed Soraka ult will prevent you from securing a kill.

General waxing on.

[First off, her magnificent kit](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Quinn): > Passive: Valor periodically marks a nearby enemy with Harrier Vulnerable for 4.5 seconds. If Quinn attacks a Vulnerable enemy, she deals 25 / 35 / 45 / 55 / 65 / 75 / 85 / 95 / 105 / 115 / 125 / 135 / 145 / 155 / 170 / 185 / 200 / 215 (+ 50% bonus AD) bonus physical damage.

> This cannot occur again for 10 seconds, or 3 seconds if Quinn triggers the Vulnerable. Harrier is disabled while Tag Team is active.

This ability is crazy awesome and is hindered only by it's unpredictability (which is probably there because she would be OP otherwise). Doing the calculatory math with similar effects (Draven's Q, Vayne's Q, Lucian's Passive) you realize that in order to match Quinn's passive for the strongest of those similar effects (Draven's Q), he would need somewhere between 200-250 AD...at level 9; beyond that it becoming beyond his grasp if Quinn has at least 75% of his total AD as her bonus damage. In practice (which is what you should be paying attention to when doing calculations) it gives a steady amount of burst every ~3 seconds solidly, while Draven and Vayne's Q are faster and more reliable despite their lower damage; BUT it has the capability to burst (which Draven's Q and Lucian's passive can, but Vayne's Q cannot). This means Harrier's strength is somewhere below Draven's Q, somewhere around Lucian's P, and somewhere above Vayne's Q in terms of damage potential. And all of that for *free*.

If her kit wasn't so focused on support and defense and had low scaling, she would be a hypercarry. Instead she's just uncharacteristically strong.


 * To this end, you never want to play around your passive, just keeping in mind it's a great bonus for playing well. Helps with harrassment and last hitting, but you still need to make good judgement calls all the same.
 * With W and E it can be great for kiting and escaping, since it gives you vision of what it's marked, however small.
 * It's disabled during your ult. It also can't be made more readily available with CDR or AS. Essentially, once it procs you either use it or you sit on your hands with it for ~10 seconds.
 * If you EVER find yourself building Hurricane for some reason, Hurricane bolts do proc it for full damage, as opposed to the mitigated damage that hurricane bolts give.
 * IT CAN CRIT HOLY SHIT (In the same sense other auto attack enhancement abilities work. The auto will crit and the base damage + bonus AD will be applied after such and consume your hidden crit timer, which means it's possible to get huge crits this passive. With means moar lifesteal, etc).

> Q: ACTIVE: Quinn commands Valor to fly forwards in a line, stopping when he collides with an enemy. Valor then deals 70 / 110 / 150 / 190 / 230 (+ 65% bonus AD) (+50% AP) physical damage and blinds nearby enemies within 210 range for 1.5 seconds.

> Q: ACTIVE - TAG TEAM: Valor deals physical damage to all enemies within 275 range of himself and blinds them for 1.5 seconds.

It's a line skillshot with a slow moving projectile (how is that possible it's a bird ffs) that "explodes" when it hit's something. That part is pretty self-explainatory aside from the slow moving part, because Valor moves at the same missile speed of Kog's E or Sivir's ooooold Q (I.e, a pile of slow moving sludge and a big ass boomrang at about ~1000-~1200 Ups). This is much more of a luxury ability than anything else that will help you last hit and make trades early on, and becomes an amazing support ability later on. In bird form it becomes a very small pbaoe that's essentially the same effect.


 * You don't always have to level this first due it's slow moving missile speed hindering it's usefulness. You should never rely on it for harrassment, but consider it a nice bonus.
 * You CAN use the slow moving missile speed to your advantage. Not unlike last hitting and then Qing away with Vayne you can use Quinn's Q to play mindgames by aiming at where they will be post-trade, or use it before the trade begins to make them reposition or otherwise take damage and become blinded. These two things make Quinn's early game very very safe as an ADC.
 * Q also provides vision if it hits something. If W is on cooldown you can use it to Q sidebushes instead of other dubious means.

> W: PASSIVE: Attacking a target marked with Harrier will grant Quinn bonus 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40% attack speed and 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 flat movement speed for 3 seconds.

> W: PASSIVE - TAG TEAM: Valor gains twice the bonus attack speed at all times.

> W ACTIVE: All area within range is revealed for 2 seconds.

You usually level this last. This means the attack speed bonus from in bird form isn't great early on, but it's still useful all the same. Otherwise it's pretty self explanatory, and is her standard carry steroid. It's mediocre as such, but it's still nice-ish.


 * *It will reveal any FoW within it's range, bushes and spots over walls included, so be sure to look for various areas of the map where such a wide swath of unerred vision would be awesome to use (like Ashe's E or like using Clairvoyance from times of yore).*
 * *You can also use this to secure kills if someone tries to hide in the brush to juke.*
 * *There is a visual and audio cue that the enemy can hear when you use it (although they don't know the area you can see). The Audio cue is of a much smaller range then the effect (about 500 radius pbaoe), but the enemy can hear it while you're in the FoW, and the enemy can see the visual cue at all times, like Shaco's smoke.*
 * You can cover aforementioned weakness if you're visible by using Q immediately after. The call and visual noise from such will essentially hide the ability.
 * It's got no mana cost, but has a very long cooldown. So again, judgement call. blah blah blah.

> E: ACTIVE: Quinn dashes to an enemy, knocking it back a short distance, dealing 40 / 70 / 100 / 130 / 160 (+ 20% bonus AD) physical damage and slowing the target's movement speed by 50%. This slow decays over 2 seconds. Upon reaching the target, she leaps off the target and Valor will immediately mark the target.

> E: ACTIVE - TAG TEAM: Valor dashes to an enemy and applies the same slow, knockback and physical damage, but does not mark or leap off the target.

> E: TAG TEAM: Valor dashes to an enemy and applies the same slow, knockback and physical damage, but does not mark or leap off the target.

Believe it or not, this ability is usually good to level first. Reason being: MORE MARKING CHANCES ALL DAY ERRDAY, and the base damage isn't bad early on either. This is what gives Quinn her burst and her crazy good defenses. Because of Q's low missile speed it can also be used in tandem with such, to great effect.


 * The interrupt is essentially a ministun from dota. It interrupts movement orders, all channeled abilities (Karthus, Lucian, and MF's ults), all non-instant Dashes (Lucian's E, Vi's Q, Jayce's Hammer Q and Hammer E, Braum's W).
 * That being said, using the dash on ability aimed at you will often make you "trade", you not vaulting backwards and them not going toward you, not unlike Naut's Q.
 * The casting range is 700. If used at anywhere from there to her auto attack range (525) it'll put her within 400 units of the target she vaulted. If used in 525 or lower range she'll be placed at max 525 range of the target. Essentially, the closer you are the farther you vault, and the farther you are the closer you vault.
 * You can also vault over walls with the right positioning. As Valor this means you can essentially Maokai/Jayce/Lee Sin to targets with W.

> R: ACTIVE: For 20 seconds, Valor replaces Quinn on the battlefield as a mobile melee attacker with alternate versions of Quinn's abilities. Valor can move through units and gains greatly increased movement speed that gradually decreases to a lower amount while in combat. (Out of Combat MS: 80 / 90 / 100% | In combat MS: 20 / 30 / 40%)

Congradulations, [you're Petshop from JJBA pt 3: Stardust Crusaders](http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/Pet_Shop) but instead of ice you have gratuitous violence.

> ACTIVE - TAG TEAM: Quinn returns to perform Skystrike, dealing 100 / 150 / 200 (+ 50% bonus AD) physical damage to all enemies within range. The damage increases by 1% for every 1% of an enemy's missing health (Max is 200 / 300 / 400 (+ 100% bonus AD) ).

So, this ability. It's great, but it does mark one of Quinn's biggest weaknesses: Riot. They expect you to get in melee range to deal damage as Valor and it's a 350 radius pbaoe from you on Skystrike, which is crazy amounts of lower than your auto range. If you're Bruiser Quinn: you're still on the squishy side of the spectrum and late game that's not great and as adc quinn: GET IN GET OUT OR JUST STRAIGHT RUUUUUN.

Still, it's a great roaming and traveling tool, great for dueling, good execute damage...etc.


 * *Use it in anticipation for every teamfight or before a gank whilst roaming (you can 1v1 almost anyone in valor form mid to late).*
 * *Using R again for skystrike is reserved for doing as much AoE as possible or for straight up executes due it doing more damage the lower health people are.*
 * It's got long cooldown so cudgement jalls.
 * As /u/razthesummoner [pointed out months ago](http://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/1x47cd/a_seemingly_little_known_trick_with_quinn_that/), vaulting to an enemy and then using Skystrike mid vault will use Quinn's version of Vault, not Valor's.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND DONE. I hope that helps.