Talk:Orianna/@comment-94.113.151.190-20120424153634/@comment-50.99.129.123-20120425133117

I'm aware of those points since I included them in my own post, I consider the AoE point rarely apt, since it's conditional and shouldn't be relied upon if you face decent opponents that don't clump up too badly. Realistically speaking you're bound to get maybe 2-3 guys in the same w since even if the Q goes past them sometimes a support ad and some other longer range guy or a jungler dancing infront of them might be around it.

In lane she has fine poke, with the assumption that the summoner actually reads the skill description and can avoid all the minions that reduce the q damage. Which admittedly I find frustrating at times and often need to prepare the ball for future hits by leaving it past minion waves or adjacent to a side of them making them go elsewhere.

she doesn't have an ultra spamable skill like twin fang which can't be underestimated and comparably kennen has 3rd skill at pretty reasonable cooldown and i don't think she beats either of them at all in terms of sheer damage she wins with her shield though.

I think ryze would be more apt to being said to have very nearly no cooldowns considering how he is, and I believe he is currently he can probably put out more spells and might do a bit more damage middle game and certainly better late (i think they're pretty equal early game).

Ahri probably has a slight edge just because of the true damage and it helps since even if people didn't stack flat MR glyphs at all ELO, there's still the base MR that is given to each champion.

TF is the one that's hard to call since i just don't know how much his AD scales into one of his abilities and autoattacks can factor into it especially with his passive. Most significantly playstyle affects him quite a bit.

On playstyles, Cass and Ryze can probably dish out much more if it becomes a brawl between ori and them from equally full health, but the saving grace might be ori's shield. I think she still loses in that specific scenario. But nobody just stands there and takes damage It would be stupid to just stand in cass' growing poison pool, but i think twin fangs is suffcient with the Q.

Where you have more tangents, meaning when it's more viable to have hit and run combos like kennen (ewq or any other permuation if allowed), i believe kennen does better.

The "them" (the personal pronoun i was using) was reffering the five ap mids that was using to make a comparison. I choose them because I thought were not only special to me but were held in a higher regard in the current state of the game and making my observations(hopefully a bit more qualitative than opinion, counter arguements are welcome though). I'm not talking about most ap mids. It would be equally unfair to say that Riven stomps on everyone top lane without giving proper justification or that germans make some of the best cars they must be the best people.

I can't be held accountable for generalizing all mids since there's so many of them that can go mid (especially since a new champ comes out 2.5 weeks~) or even weird ones like soraka that might even do the most damage that i might not have even tried but someone told me Scarra did.

It's absurd to say some facts ripped from spreadsheets (maybe since i've yet to have seen the statistics to justify 'most' aps) that are then applied to a generalize over an entire role AND then call it a justification for INGAME.

There's also a distinction between being beaten (i did say) and lacks (didn't), being second place in power lifting is different than being fat and unable to walk upright because of the sheer mass of your own body holding you down.

If you wanna talk about ingame you don't need to bring up the numbers we're on a wiki with them on it already all of us can read that she has ratios that are okay. It's like stating god is good twice it doesn't make it true just because you said it twice.

Instead we can look at the high level replays of players in tournament situations where stuff matters and examine the relative value of orianna in high stakes situations if you want to talk about 'ingame'. From that point you see whether it's the character or the player that made that happen.

The only semi-recent time I've seen her being used previously was when Salce played with Epik Gamer versus V8 in the curse invitational awhile back and he played quite well compared to the rest of his team but he didn't do the most damage but he did create opportunities with the utility he had. <- empirical evidence that we both can equally observe and analyze for INGAME.

please make the distinction so that just because you can post about the same thing 20 times a day, one post with better content would suffice instead especially if you want to dissect her using a cartesian model.