Talk:Tryndamere/@comment-3017217-20140213125652/@comment-6281696-20140216211749

Trynda is faster as his basic build involves multiple movementspeed items & he has a low CD dash. Ignoring those two he's reasonably average in that respect. Especially with how much mobility a lot of the newer champions have. This makes disengaging and kiting effectivly impossible, especially on your own, for most champions. Dot & delayed damage sound fun in theory, except that a considerable amount of them don't actually outlast his ultimate, plus most of the time you end up dying yourself. Also, Dots & delayed damage is relativly rare, most go for burst. CC: no single champion has enough on his own to pull that of. Making it not really a counter.

To put it into perspective: Teemo mechanic wise should be the absolute bane of Tryndamere. In reality trynda's ult & dash allow him to close the distance and then survive long enough to kill teemo, pretty much regardless of how much more fed teemo is. At least with the normal builds, and assuming it isn't like a lvl 18 full build teemo vs a lvl 1 Trynda with just doran's...

Simply put the only "counter" to tryndamere is effective teamplay (e.g. following up eachothers cc and such). Which I think is a bit much effort to take out 1 guy as it is basicly guarenteed it is needed unless tryndamere is a complete morron.

As for those items, not what I see them with. BC, Hydra & BotrK are extremely popular on those, and most end up taking at least two of them. Especially since S4 started, no idea what is going on but this was much less an issue in S3, hell I now regularly run into people playing those more or less glass canon. As for the lcs, don't really care, the fact that the top players actually build them as tanks doesn't really matter to me as I don't actually ever face them. Also, the fact that you can build them tanky doesn't nesecairly make them a tank, I was mostly refering to their mechanics. Technicly you can also build everything as an ADC and most will even do a halfdecent job at it even without the needed mechanics in their abilities.

As for Rammus his "damage". First of, it wasn't my point that tanks don't deal damage, they have to at some point if they want to win. His W increases his defense and punishes an attacker for attacking him. That is clearly a defensive mechanic. As a comparison: Renektons damage consists of punching you in the face, Rammus his damage consists of hiding behind a pointy shell so you can't attack him without hurting yourself. The first is a completly offensive way of the fighting, the second is defensive. I hope that much we can agree on. Same goes for Rammus his other abilities, the main point isn't the damage. The main point of Q is mobility, the main point of E is CC. Whereas his ult has no point than to simply deal damage. Same goes for Thresh, though to be honest I have no idea what is up with the damage on his ult, it's extremely inconsistent with the rest of his kit in that respect.

As for them not being tanks according to you. First of, a large part of that is due to how the meta works gold wise, and again I didn't really mean items so much as the mechanics of said champions. Second I think you view tanks as something different than I do. Tanks are support as they are there to control the opponents movement & attacks in some way while buying time for your damage to return fire, not to actually take them out on themselfs. Renekton can survive just as long as leona, but has much less control over the opponent and is mostly just trying to kill stuff himself instead of protecting allies/pinning down opponents. CC is rather crucial on them, I assume it's kind of obvious why. Auras work well on them as they are difficult to take down and are there to protect allies anyway, so this both guarentees the aura remains active as long as possible and helps them do their job.

Basicly my point is that most of those aren't tanks, simply DPS that doesn't go glass canon. In most games you'd have 3 tiers (roughly) of survivability: Glass canons, Bruisers & Tanks, but here Bruisers and tanks are more or less equivalent in terms of survivability, which with the added issue that fights end quickly pushes out tanks utility in favor of Bruiser DPS as utility tends to not shine as much in short fights.