Talk:Graves/@comment-8185459-20130504095243/@comment-7095057-20130607233651

Some further tips. Graves was my first ADC I ever learned how to play. Thermo has a lot of good points

1. Your skill leveling will go R > Q > E > W, get W at level 4, start with Q pretty much no matter what. Even if the enemy invades, if you start q you have a very good chance of completely creaming most of their team as Graves' damage doesn't go down for each foe he hits. Graves' level 1 is by far the deadliest of all ADCs, and one of the strongest in game.

2. As was said, get a bursty support. Graves works best with a Taric, Leona, Alistar or Thresh on his team, but he also does very well with a Sona.

3. Graves loves CC team comps. If you have a top/mid/jungle or support with a team stun/snare/pull like Amumu, Malphite, Sona, Orianna, or even a Kennen, you will have fun. This makes it really easy for you to do your EQR combo and still get out.

4. It's a good idea to really remember how much mana your skills cost. To do a full EQR combo for instance, which is the the combo you will be doing with graves a lot for teamfights and any other engages, you need 250 mana. So watch mana as was said before.

5. During early laning you want to establish yourself in control of the lane, if at all possible. Starting Long Sword + Pots is generally the best start you can get on graves, but don't be afraid to go Doran's blade if you have a support sustain or you feel the lane will be easy enough. If you get pushed back, don't be worried about farming at tower. Graves is one of the few adcs who can farm under tower very well, and even dive himself if needed.

6. Always rush for Vamp Scepter, then start on IE/BT by getting a BFS. Build wise you should avoid RH and PD unless needed. Get an Avarice Blade early on if you can and build it later into a Shiv after you finish IE/BT. IE is great on graves and Shiv tends to be the better item when it comes to most comps. Get Botrk if you see beefy champs like Jarvan, Mundo, Singed, Warwick and Garen, as they'll be able to take your full burst combo and still have well over 70% of their hp.

7. LW is a great item for Graves and should be taken over cleaver in most every case. This is cause at the start of your teamfight you will be unleashing your entire burst at the start and if you have cleaver over LW you aren't gonna ignore a lot of armor during your burst

8. In most cases you will not want to get GA. You will want a warmog/FM or a Viel instead of GA as your last. This is cause Graves is inheriently tanky and the GA's effect isn't exactly the best on Graves, who's job is to get his burst out. With a FM or Warmog he can stay alive long enough to do this. With a GA... he dies, enemy team sits on him for passive... he dies again. Warmog means he's tanky enough to live through most burst combos, and still get his own out even in the event he gets cced first.

9. There are a few ADCs to play very agressive against and some to lane carefully against:

Ashe/Draven: Play safe. Ashe vs Graves is more dependent on your supports than you. Draven's burst can match Graves, so it's also a support deal. Draven Counters Graves because of his burst trading.

'''Cait: Play Safe. She's a nightmare to most Graves players, because of her range.''' At 6 you can outburst her but until then you're essentially a sitting duck. Cait counters graves naturally.

Varus: Play agressive till 6, then back off and play more safe. Varus cannot trade back well against you if you land your Q properly on him. You out trade him and have a better AS steroid. At 6 he can wreck you if you aren't careful. Varus is considered a counter to graves due to his range and Q.

Ezreal/Kog/Vayne: These are the guys you counter generally. Even if these guys get fed later on in the game, you will generally be able to kill them once you get your items. '''In lane... push. Push the lane as far to their tower as you can and play extremely agressive, or zone them out completely and freeze the lane. These 3 champs cannot farm under their tower well and cannot match Graves in a 1v1 trade till late game. '''

Tristana/Corki: Farm well. This is basically a farm game as you're not going to kill either of these two without hard cc like Leona or Alistar, and even if you push them out of lane they can still both farm very well and catch up.

Twitch: I don't fight enough twitches out there to know if they're a good counter or not to graves, however I do know twitch deals a lot of annoying poison damage. Farm well and ask your support to pink your bush so you can trade with the rat if needed. You out trade but he pokes well. Keep this in mind.