Talk:Kayle/@comment-5877442-20140826233847/@comment-24082016-20140829165642

Simoncr1s

With the way you phrased it, you made it sound like movement boost a passive, rather than an active. It being restricted to 3 seconds and a certain range makes the MS gained from it more like a CC+Buff, rather than flat out "mobility". The way you stated it was misleading, so yes I called you out on it. I'd expect you to do the same if my facts were wrong, which they were on the BotRK active description and the rylais stats. So thanks for the followup and clarification.

And yes, what I stated about Rylai's uselessness took into account your definition of a tank. As you've stated, and I pointed out before, it's an item that does more to a person based on their current health. But what tank goes full HP and no other def stats(armor + Mr). That's like going full retard. You never go full retard...unless you're a retard, in which case gg. When using magic on a proper tank(150MR+) or semi tanky character(MR between100-149. low by my standard, but still "tanky" with enough HP), that Q damage, which only gets 30-35 bonus raw damage from Liandry's "gracious" 50ap, will be halfed or worse despite the Pen given by the Mask(only need 100MR after reductions to half magic damage. Yes, I bothered to look it up),. Without proper reduction, that "12%" expected damage from a Q hit is, believe it or not, NEVER going to be anywhere even NEAR 12%. Now before you make a mention about Kayles passive, holy fervor, which shreds 3  % mr and armor addtively, up to 15% for any 5seconds assuming you keep the stacks going, allow me to pull another fact out of my butt. An obvious 1 that you know already. 15% can yield some pretty meaningless returns. although better than the flat 15pen from the mask. Since I'm sure someone will bicker about me dissing the "awesome passive", allow me to throw some math around.

vs. 100mr, -15mr. Damage w/ Liandry's is between 58-59% max. if Mpen boots included, then 64-65%

vs 200mr,  -30mr. Damage w/ Liandry's is between 38-39% max. if Mpen boots included, then 41-42%

vs. 300mr, -45mr. Damage w/ Liandry's is between 29-30% max. if Mpen boots included, then 30-31%

vs 400mr,  -60mr. For me to go on would just be of my own amusement, because I love math(not).

What about those numbers says you'll be doing almost 100% of the liandry's passive, magic burn on only 6-12%(the most per hit if you dont re-proc)of  the enemies current hp?

So why does Zyra work so well with Liandry's? Um, idk. maybe because she has plants doing her bidding without any regard for their own lives? While they're expiring or getting cleaned up, they're dishing out 2-3 hits minimal on nearby champs, within 2 seconds of each hit, while Zyra stands far away watching the gardening channel. Kayle doesn't have that "safe-ranged persistent harrass" capability. Slows aren't enough. not when procing it puts you close enough for a gap closer.

That's why I consider void staff an "alternative" at the very least. Infact, I'll go a step further, stick my neck out, and say it's a must if you're getting liandry's, because if you're building mediocre AP and expecting to do decent damage on a tanky champ just because of liandry's passive and measly flat 15 mpen, you got another thing comin. With Void staff, you're alot closer to that coveted 12%, but still a far cry.

And that coveted 12% becomes less relevant in any fight that goes farther than the first poke. Rather than looking at it's max output damage, you should be looking at it as a fight goes on w/ relevant information taken into account(Health of target, MR of target, How soon do you re-proc liandrys, is the target slowed, etc). Taking into account the implicit variables would be overkill(targets sheild/healing abiltities, are you under enemy pressure, is there more than 1 person to worry about, the burst or DPS of enemy champs you're within range of, the cc of enemy champs, the gap closing abilities of champs, etc etc).

And i didnt get into hybrid builds for a reason. It's easy enough to build mediocre AP or AD stats by buying low stats items like liandry's, but you're still somewhat salvageable if have some decent penetration or base damage from kit. If you want to go a step further in raping your own damage potential and buy items that can only show a usefulness against squishies(barely any penetration from other item choices or kit, and mediocre Ad and/or Ap, do i really have to explain?), then you better pray that the other team is new to the terms "defensive stats", "burst", "guardian angel", and "League of Legends".