Talk:Graves/@comment-4539735-20130308181300/@comment-192.195.154.204-20130312002702

@220.255.1.123

No mid or ADC is going to have a survival item like warmongs untill mid late game after they've bought their main damage item because then they risk doing absolutely no damage. By the time team fights start showing up you should have a Bloodthirster if you've been playing anywhere decently. The point (And why it's game changing still) is forcing them out of the team fight or making it an easy job for your assassin or APC to secure the kills on them. If you're not doing over 40-50% of the ADC and APC's hp with your buckshot ult combo, you're doing something wrong with your build, or you let the enemy team get too far ahead of you. This is even more true if the champs in question are champs like Ezreal, Vayne, Lux, or Ziggs.

The point is simply you cannot say his ult is pathetic in terms of damage. It's still a very strong ultimate: Far better than most ADCs (Like Cait's single target, counterable ult, or Quinns switch to Valor) and quite a lot of champs in general.

By the time you hit late game you should be nearing 250 AD, easily (or at least 200 if you were behind some. a full stacked BT alone should put you near 200 AD). Grave's burst combo on a champ with 50% armor at that point will still do almost 1k damage (single bullet buckshot ult combo does 1860 without mitigations on 250 AD, point black he'd do 2140). There's no excuse to say he doesn't do good burst still when most ADCs and APCs won't have more than 2.5k hp or 50% armor. Perhaps you just aren't building him right.