Talk:Lissandra/@comment-9008617-20130503213021/@comment-9008617-20130508194016

"Sigh, you can't understand the point of why I brought up her ult range, she needs to be in close range to use her ult. Kennen's E is enough to run around and start his ult in the middle of the enemy team while taking a bit of damage since its not an initiating technique."

Sigh. So 50 bonus armor/magic resist for 4 seconds is enough to tank the team? Lissandra's ult has the same range as Kennen's ult, the only difference that has been started ad naseum being that Lissandra's ult is instant whereas Kennen has to stay within the enemy team to get the most out of his ult. I don't understand why you can't understand pro vs cons, it's a very simple concept.

Pro:  Lissandra's ult is instant one target stun/self invulnerability, AOE slow + AOE one time damage and only 48-80 second CD

Pro: Kennen's ult is AoE mark-applying (can lead to stun), AoE damage

Con: Lissandra's is a single target stun

Con: Kennen's ult is not an instant stun, requires you to be close or deep within the enemy team during teamfights, and is a multi-hit AoE damager therefore mitigated by magic resist up to 3 times. Also the CD is 72 to 120 seconds.

"I strip Lissandra of her passive in the case she uses it to harass. Its not always up and I am taking it in the worst case scenario... And yes, there are items to get mana regen. In that time, Kennen can get more AP or tankiness... But that's a special lane scenario so i'll leave it at that."

Kennen's passive isn't always up either since the marks dissipate after 8 seconds or QSS yet you still include Kennen's passive and not Lissandra's - biased analysis.

The problem is that many mana regen items contain other bonuses too (i.e. AP, tankiness, CDR, etc) so that's hardly a valid point.

"Its 6-4 because I am taking base values which are not affected by CDR. Simply using values which are at 40% CDR is meaningless. So itemization in your case for Lissandra would be AP, a bit of tankiness and CDR...."

What's 6-4? Lissandra's Q with zero CDR is still 4 seconds... It's only 2 seconds with max CDR which is why I've been posting 2-4 seconds and not "6-4". Did you even read?

"And given Karthus's 1 sec CD of Q, his wall is icing on the cake."

What??? Are you retarded? The point you made was that Karthus' 18 second CD wall (which does no dmg btw) + 1 second Karthus Q spam is better than Lissandra's 2-4 second Q spam. I countered that having to land 2 skills is harder than it is to land one very low CD Q from Lissandra and all you came come back with is "his wall is icing on the cake"?!? LOL THE F@CK?!?

Karthus' wall has a very high CD and if you miss it you're out of luck for 12-18 seconds. Karthus' Q damage is also reduced if it hits more than one target (which btw, genius, has less than half Lissandra's damage and AP scalings so thanks for bring that up) and Karthus' Q has a 0.5 second delay which makes it a lot more avoidable than a shotgun full of ice to the face.

"You were the one who brought up AA while in E, then say that he has to AA.... Yeah, guess your a troll."

You brought up AD Kennen. I guess AD Kennen doesn't need to AA ever right since so many of Kennen's skills scale to AD.

"Yeah, 3 other skills out of which 1 is an escape, so 2. 2 spells to use and 1 is an ult, which if you are doing a 1v1 would make its AoE useless. So, what now? Spam that Q and hope you can kill them?"

If you're doing a 1v1 vs a ranged champ, just ult them or flash away if you can't win or slow them or root them... Lissandra probably has one of the most options for escape for an APC. And you do realize that all her skills do damage, right? That includes her glacial path and root/snare which both actually have a higher base damage and almost the same AP scalings as her Q. So what now? =P

"Lissandra has 3 main damage skills. Q, W and ulti. E is and will never be a main damage spell. Use it and you may regret not having it up when in a position of an easy escape IF you had it up. Her W is low range, you will have to be close if you want to use it. If you can't understand it, Lissandra is not some normal AP mage, Riot made her to be a shorter range mage."

The only really "short" ranged skill is her W. Q (725+shatter range which equals and can be greater than the longest ranged AA in the game) and E (1050 range) and even her Ult (550) really aren't short at all. I would argue her ult isn't that short given that it's an instant stun whereas many APC don't get that luxury and only have maybe 50-100 more range (i.e. Morgana).

And if you're bursting someone down, chances are you're going to want to expend all your skills including your glacial path since as I mentioned earlier it does similar damage to your Q and W therefore increasing your burst significantly or by 50% if you don't include her ult. Besides, glacial path is 7-12 second CD and smart summoners would have Flash on standby if they're worried about escaping after a burst down/gank.

"And? I never said it was for teamfights.... I just stated her role, how Riot was planning on making her."

You stated W benefited the most from teamfights and it was melee range. It's all context, maybe you should learn how to properly follow your own train of thought.

"This was an argument? I thought it was educating some 10 year old on Lissandra's skills. :<"

In this same post you just posted that Lissandra's Q is 6-4 seconds CD but then compared every other champ to her using their max level skill CD. Besides, what have you educated me in? From what I can tell, you seem like quite a bad player overall. Every time you present your argument I take the courtesy of copying and pasting your argument and deconstructing (destroying) your points one by one whereas you haven't stated anything really worthwhile. Karthus' wall is just icing on the cake? Reeeally??? That's your best rebuttle?

"There's other champs who can deal more damage, less CC but from a farther range. Sigh, is that all? You only look at her pros without looking at any cons. She still needs to be in close range to output her AoE damage. If you play her as an AP mage in the backlines, her Q is the only viable thing in her kit to be used, with her ult making her in AA range."

Why do you keep excluding her 1050 range AOE glacial path? Is that how you play Lissandra? Just Q behind lines all game? That must be pretty boring for you.

Of course there's other champs who can deal more damage but how many of them have 4 AoE damaging skills, super low CD spammable ice shotgun slow, AoE root/snare + dmg, mobility from an AoE damaging skillshot flash, and a god damn 48-80 second CD 1.5 second STUN which is like your favourite CC + AoE slow + AoE damage?!

"Ezreal has an instant blink, Lissandra needs a few seconds to actually use it. Suppose you need to get over a wall ASAP, the claw needs to travel the distance before you can teleport, while Ezreal can just -whoosh-. And using it to farm is in no way a good idea -_- Would any person in their right mind use their escape to farm? Just... stop dude. Your embarassing yourself."

So you're saying when you're farming you would never use the glacial path to wave clear? Nice to know beating you in CS will be a piece of cake. It's called map awareness, you should learn some. As I said before, her glacial path is a very low CD and shows greater than twice the range of Ezreal's arcane shift. And yes, the only drawback is that it's not instant but this also gives you the option to run in two different directions if you're being chased and opt to flash as you see fit. And if you're Ezreal you need to be pretty close to the wall to flash over it anyways and so if you're playing Lissandra you'd want to be near that wall yourself too. Or heck, throw the claw over the wall while you run away from it and as they chase you for that 1 to 2 seconds then you flash.

Also, Ezreal (without a phage) isn't going to be able to spam slows, root/snare, or waveclear nearly as easy as Lissandra. So yeah, her glacial path flash not being instant is a drawback but it's balanced by the rest of her kit. But hey, you love to compare one aspect of one skill in one scenarios so I'm not surprised you still can't see the bigger picture.

"Aaaand i'm not 12, are you?"

No but my 12 year old nephew thinks you write like a turd. =)