Talk:Graves/@comment-7881237-20140920123718/@comment-8468980-20141109044423

"Of the carries you listed, most of those actually get shut down in lane, or at least used to against graves."

I mentioned they all had stronger post laning phase, as in, they deal with teamfights better and scale better with more complete builds than him.

"So I suppose my point is his threat even if he loses lane is his burst and team presence even if he loses."

That's nice anecdotal reference but the idea is that certain features of an ADC allow them to flourish at various points during the game (unless they are broke and cannot be contained, a la Lucian).

Champs like Caitlyn, Graves, Lucian, MF, and Varus get very high burst damage from their spells. They work almost like AD caster mages in lane. Ideally, they put their opponent at an HP disadvantage with their stronger burst, and kick them out of lane or kill them outright. This allows them to get an item and level advantage and end games earlier before late game carries snowball and win teamfights.

Champs like Trist, Kog, Vayne, Twitch as well as Draven get tools that allow them to take their items and multiply that into giant sustained single target (or multi target damage *twitch ulti @.@*). They also get tools to help keep them safe in team fights like mobility tools, longer range, stealth, or hard CC.

This is how things are supposed to work ideally, but as I've mentioned individual champ balance, as well as viable builds, influence things greatly too. Trist was largely off the radar for about two seasons (despite Riot's buffs), then Riot nerfed the crap out of BT (a great lane bully / ADC caster item) and buffed IE (a not so great ADC caster item, but awesome for hyper carries like Trist) and all of the sudden she's OP as hell.