Talk:Udyr/@comment-194.65.37.67-20130107170226/@comment-5489694-20130108031325

^ During turtle out: Q, Pull, auto, slow, auto, Q. Udyr's lost that trade heavily, stance dancing's cd is to long for you to tiger then turtle after the stun w/o serious damage being dealt. If you're going to trade you might as well go all in and stun, tiger, turtle, tiger and hope you out dps him because stuns duration is not long enough to make any short trade worth your while unless you're using it as a disengage. Even then you're going to get hurt far more than Darius will because he can add passive stacks as you come in and leave.

Darius wins the lane outright at lvl 3 if you haven't hurt him significantly (and then he gains control at lvl 6), before that you can bully by procing tiger and having the effect happen during a bear stun and following up with another tiger proc (far more damage than any champion can handle at early levels). Turtle's base strength is super low and is maybe cutting half of what Darius's Q does (if that) so relying on it to keep you alive w/o multiple ranks in it is a pipe dream. Laning against Darius is just a game of survival, you max Turtle if you don't get early lane advantage (still leveling it over tiger after the lane has rebalanced) and just farm as well as you can because that's all you can do.

Udyr does not counter Darius, the match up is very difficult for Udyr