Talk:Teemo/@comment-8506165-20131122054512/@comment-8506165-20131124124646

"And whats Teemo supposed to do if the enemy buys 5 sweeper trinkets? Sweeping for invis isn't just the support's job anymore. Everyone can do it."

Keep shrooming.

I specifically said in my first post: even if an entire team buys this item and throws away a load of wards in doing so, there's still a 130-second window of downtime on detecting Teemo shrooms. 50 seconds is maybe enough to clear a lane if the shrooms are all fairly easy to find and the enemy team aren't hindering you at all, but then you've got 130 seconds of Teemo having free reign with them. Or you can spread out the actives, but I guarantee you that you won't get all the shrooms in an area with a short-ranged 10s reveal.

"If you think a tank can't take those shrooms, then sorry to say but your tank isn't buying any MR items."

If you think an MR item will save you from repeatedly exposing yourself to Liandry's burn when you've gotten significant amounts of health, then sorry to say but you really underestimate the ludicrous power of Liandry's Torment. It burns ~4% of your current health per second for four seconds, then ~2% per second for another three (with Teemo shrooms). Then 450 base damage, + 80% AP, then factor in that Liandry's is 15 MPen too. Assuming Teemo's gone Sorcs and is running the standard 9 MPen marks he now has 37.8 flat MPen, now add in 6% penetration from the offense tree and... Let's say a Maokai, one of my favourite tanks, with a Spirit Visage (the highest single MR item on Rift) and scaling MR glyphs at level 18 tanks a Teemo shroom; his effective MR is (roughly) 0.94*99-37.8 = 55.26 MR = 46% damage reduction. Let's round it up to 50%DR for simplicity and to be generous. He now takes 225+40%AP damage per shroom, +2% of his current health every second for 4s, then 1% for another three. We can already see that while Mao can man it through a few shrooms, tanking three in a row to the face actually leaves him somewhat weak at the knees. I hit maybe 4k health with Maokai? So I step on one shroom and in the first tick of damage I'm down to 3764 health if I've done my numbers right, assuming Teemo has 400-ish AP. If you want the full calculation:

1st second: 4000-2%*4000-225/4-100= 3763.75 2nd second: 3763.75-2%*3763.75-225/4-100 = 3532.225 3rd second: 3532.225-2%*3532.225-225/4-100 = 3305.3305 4th second: 3305.3305-2%*3305.3305-225/4-100 = 3082.97389 5th second: 3082.97389-1%*3082.97389 = 3052.14415 6th second: 3052.14415-1%*3052.14415 = 3052.14415 7th second: 3021.62271-1%*3021.62271 = 2991.40648

One shroom, from full health. Over a quarter of his total health. Granted, each successive shroom does less, given that Liandry's is based on current rather than maximum health, but do you -really- want your frontline to be taking a few of these before a teamfight?

(This is slightly simplified in that I applied Liandry's every second as opposed to every half second, because it makes the calculation easier without throwing it off too far and I figured it was alright seeing as I already rounded DR up. Plus no inclusions of Havoc or Double-Edged Sword etc. Either way, if you see some glaring error in my numbers then please point it out, but I think it's a good approximation.)

And this is assuming the rodent doesn't buy a Void Staff, when he'd be foolish not to get one late-game with how MPen works at the moment.

(I like theorycrafting with numbers, can you tell? ;3)