Talk:Veigar/@comment-4748826-20140825215237/@comment-7095057-20140829171301

I know we went after the fact Veigar is actually not in a overly bad spots. He's an underrated Mid lane champ like Zyra is right now.

But going to your rework lets take a look.

Passive

Veigar has some extreme mana issues early on. This is due to him using Q to farm, and it having high HIGH mana costs on top of a pretty heafty cd early on. By removing his built in Chalice you actually cripple his already weak early game into the ground by limiting his ability to use his abilities.

My suggestion would be to keep his passive where it is, or give him a new passive that gives him mana on killing minions with spells.

Q

Baleful strike does not need these suggestions. Rather it could be turned into a mid range skill shot (800 range) to achieve a "skill" effect. Similar to Ezreal's Q, it stops when colliding with the very first enemy. This actually helps with Viegar's harrass combo pre six, the EWQ combo because he wouldn't have to run up for his Q anymore and risk getting countered and killed.

It's passive could be changed to include your passive idea, but I would argue that the X stack should be tied to his Baleful strike's cd to preserve it's functionality, and lowers with CDR.

W

It already has a 100% AP ratio and a high cast range. It doesn't need anything more to it honestly. If you're hit with Dark Matter you're taking practically the same damage you wouild from his ult, because his Dark Matter scales 1:1 and has one of the highest base skill damages in the game. It IS the highest when talking AoEs I believe

E

What makes a good Veigar is how well they can edge stun champions with E on casting it. You're basically punishing good veigars by saying that the stun starts at 1 second and increases as it lasts longer. It should be the other way around. It is at it's strongest to start, and weakens over time. This would make it more noticable when Viegar lands a perfect stun on a team rather than if people just ran into it.

The lower CDR isnt needed. By that suggestion with max CDR he could use his E twice or even three times on a 7 second CD. He already has HUGE control power with team fights because of his E. He doesn't need more there.

R

While I agree the 80% AP ratio may not be needed, he needs something to make sure he can blow up a mage, tank, or other character effectively. Failure to do so would mean his death against bursty mids like Syndra and Brand. I don't want to go into the possibility of having his R ignore MR because that can get way too powerful and MR/Health are the two major counters to him.