Talk:Garen/@comment-69.244.210.223-20120514081509/@comment-69.244.210.223-20120515141119

Q - Scaling silence would destroy his early game. A lot of champions have escape moves. Garen is not a burst champion and takes time to deal his damage. His early rests on the fact that he can forcefully complete his entire combo. If it is a 1-1.5 second silence only, Garen will deal very little damage before the opponent can start using their escapes. He will get destroyed.

W- I hate the argument "Oh this is X champion's Ult!" An ability's usefulness for a champion depends on its synergy with its kit. Miss Fortune's ult is widely regarded as weak, but that doesn't make her not viable because she has other tools in her kit. Mundo's ult is really strong, and without it he would pretty lackluster. Just because a champion has a certain theme in one of his abilities doesn't give him a trademark right to it. Morello has stated this himself and given examples of the numerous conceptual overlaps between the various champions, not just through abilities, but items as well (Oh, GA is just like Zilean's ult, how OP)

Anyways, this change is far weaker than Olaf's ult, which not only gives tons of bonus APen and lasts a full 8 seconds, but it can also be used while CC'd. What it does allow Garen to do is actually have a chance of catching his opponent in a fight. He has zero gap closer and will be kited all day long. He doesn't deal high burst damage. He needs some way to lend a sense of immediacy to his kit. Garen will die more easily with this change, but it will help him be more useful in teamfights.

Every Garen player knows that if he doesn't build any damage items, he does zero damage. He still has to do this, and with the damage reduction from W removed, he will end up noticeably squishier than before. It's a fair trade, I think.

E - I say reduce its cooldown because Garen's damage is so fragile, he needs to be very intelligent with how he itemizes to maximize his damage. He CANNOT afford to build attack speed items like PD. This means that when his E is on cooldown, he does absolutely zero damage. Currently, Garen might combo and bring someone to half health, but then he is on cooldowns and does really very little for about 5-6 seconds. A 1 second reduction is not over the top and would help, I think.

R - At first, I thought a change to physical would actually be a good idea, but then I remembered that everyone in lane vs. Garen reaches 100 + armor by level 6, usually. Garen doesn't have a LW until much later. This would be a significant nerf to his early game, which I don't think he needs. Changing it to physical *might* help him in the late game, but I don't think it's the right way to go about strengthening his late game.

I agree his early game is fine. It's not getting buffed with these changes. His late game is getting buffed because he will have a stronger impact in team fights.