Talk:Riven/@comment-4636093-20120725022145/@comment-99.230.173.138-20120726200840

Nothing about Riven's backstory seems cliche to me. Seeking redemption is not a cliche, it's a common literary tool that is not innately a bad thing. Fighting evil is far more of a cliche than redemption, as it implies black and white morality, yet it remains used without irony everywhere. Even with many stories where the heroes aren't squeaky clean, making the baddies very clearly evil is still pretty common.

Not that Noxians are supposed to be bad guys. That was pretty much half of the point of Riven's character. I still wouldn't say they've entirely moved past the "clearly dicks" kinda thing though, it's just a bit better.

Even Mary Sues can be entertaining though. It's pretty much Commander Shepard of Mass Effect in a nutshell, which most people who play the game are pretty OK with.

Besides, none of the League of Legends characters really have much of an in-depth real personality anyway. Lulu is whimsical, Darius believes in strength, Draven is an arrogant showoff, Fiora is an self-assured duelist, Amumu is sad and wishes he knew his parents, Pantheon is a spartan whose only interest in battle, Viktor is a shunned man who is now obsessed with making cyborgs. Garen is practically the most rounded character in the game since he's a soldier of his country with implications of being in love with his rival along with respecting their combat skills. It's kinda impossible to portray much more than that in 20 or so lines anyway.

I also don't see what about Riven's current character isn't at least sensibly set up. I wouldn't assume it's exactly easy to move past being the sole survivor of an artillery strike, let alone that with simultaneously being betrayed and likely having no one to provide psychotherapy.

But yeah, I still don't see her as any sort of Mary Sue. I can get not liking her, but the Mary Sue accusation is... well, a pretty big accusation. There generally ain't many worse things you can call a character. Simply calling a character boring is never stronger than saying they're a Mary Sue.