Talk:Caitlyn/@comment-6061249-20140506131012/@comment-7095057-20140512183319

Never said max Raka Q. Said Cait Q. Your original post made it sound like Cait's max E, which is silly.

Maxing Q in lane as caitlyn doesn't mean you Q minions. As I said earlier, it's better to treat cait's Q as if it were an Ez mystic shot. You get more damage that way when it lands and avoid unnecessary pushing.

Shroud of Darkness is not hard to poke and actually very easy to stop with Ashe, Graves, Corki and Quinn. The only ones really vurnerable are Vayne, Caitlyn, Jinx, and Draven. Anyone else can get out easy. Your bigger threat would be Leona coming in with her ult instead of E at that same time.

I'm not backing from the "post 6 you shouldn't be shoving lane unless you can win argument." That's very simple, and if you're dealing with Leona and Noc that's a good reason to not even try shoving without that condition.

As for the E argument I'm saying this. Unless you're positioned poorly, you should not be in a situation where Leona can E you. If she flashes for it, then that's a flash she wont have for 5 minutes. I don't consider you dying at that point bad, and soraka can likely keep caitlyn alive long enough for her to survive the cc chain (It's possible. Noc doesn't build damage, and even with the Leona passive procs, Soraka's heal gives a ton of armor, which make it easier for her to survive). Otherwise you're right.

Hard CC from Jinx? If you're hit by W sure but if your're in a situation where the lane is pushed, Jinx should not have a clear shot on you with her W or E until most of Leona and Noc's CC is down.

Ashe + Leona normally means whoever they target is dead anyway. They don't even need noc for that so that should be expected post 6 and taken into account.

E's knockback and cait's range puts her out of range of Draven's Stand Aside. Unless Draven is right in your face he shouldn't hit you wih that if you E back. As a result he falls in the same situation as Jinx where he'd have to wait till everyone else was done.

However this is all subjective. We can do this all day but the point in the end remains from me that: If you're cait+Raka and fighting a Leona+Anything (Namely Ashe, Graves, or Lucian): Don't shove Lane after 6 unless you can win. If you can't win a trade, there is no reason to shove lane, especially since we're talking Cait Raka, which means Cait has to basically 2v1/3v1 with some extra healing help.