Talk:Rumble/@comment-71.142.78.182-20120731074114/@comment-71.142.69.73-20120803011847

Sigh, now it's time to explain why most of your responses were valid on some points, but didn't calculate the rest.

1. I already calculated on how before it worked. I said for example, if now you hit 6 times in your flamespitter, you could potentially say miss 2 or even 3 in the same time. BUT, the damage from the new flamespitter when it hits 6 times versus for in the previous QoL changes (when it would hit 4 for 6, or if you guys want to say 3 for 6), the damage is NEARLY equal. And now with the danger zone bonus nerfed, this new one does less than the previous QoL changes.

2. You're saying the AP Ratio is extremely high. Note that this is ONLY for when you hit all 6 ticks. This assumption, while it can be true with the new Rumble's QoL changes and nerf, and I'll justify why it's needed later on.

3. Nerfed to the ground. I'll admit I was probably a bit rash in saying this; however, Rumble is now hardly going to be seen in competitve play. The fact that A. no one knew how to counter him (so rarely seen), is now not a factor because he became discovered for a short while, and B. he was still countered in top lane. You guys say he's uncounterable; Dyrus crushed BLACK or CLG.Black with Olaf vs. a Rumble. He constantly killed the Rumble, and won out with quite a high cs. His flamespitter damage was one of his highlights, and now, can hardly trade efficiently with other top laners. If he could already be countered, and recieves heavy nerfs to his MAIN damage component (his flamespitter taking a 120 base damage nerf). Let's say Cass's Q took a 40-50 damage base nerf, etc. But regardless, he could be countered with good play; now he can easily be destroyed.

4. Danger zone bonus was too high. Not at all, not at all. This is what truly makes Rumble's kit unique and, even if the flamespitter was nerfed (that COULD be seen as a fine way), the danger zone should not have. You guys have this all encompassing assumption Rumble can just spit out flamespitter every second it's off cd. False. We have something called the overheat. In a teamfight, you want your flamespitter to be above 50 heat. After that, you can maybe use it one more time before you overheat, less you want to not use any other abilities for 4 seconds in a team fight. His danger zone was meant so that Rumble players could actually do more damage in a fight until he silenced himself, which by then he's quite useless until 6 seconds later. (by that time, most team fights are done/nearly over).

5. Flamespitter still has a high base damage. Likewise, so does Pantheon's heartseeker strike, Garen's spin to win. Look at Anivia's Q, how people like Froggen can build a Warmog's and still wreck faces with high base damage. Just because there's a high base damage does NOT mean it needs to be nerfed. I can see other peoples' points on how it was a tad bit overpowered. But such a big damage nerf is quite a killer to his again, main damge point. It's his kit that makes his flamethrower strong, not the flamethrower itself.

6. Decent bully early game? Are you kidding me? His flamespitter does WEAK damage from lvl's 1-3 and can easily be traded vs. Moreover, the rest of his damage comes from E. This means minions can't be blocking the way, and thus he's taking minion aggro. Riven can easily trade with Q's, Jax can stun -AA -AA reset with W and easily outrade.

7. Unlike many bruisers, this guy has a lack of HARD cc and sustain. Taking a look at Jax/Malphite/Irelia/Riven/Yorick/Kennen, there's something these top laners that Rumble doesn't have. Sustain and cc. Olaf can perma slow with Q, and has true damage on E. UNLESS you're obviously trying to E them, in which the enemy can now kite backwards, setting up ganks is harder and it's tougher to actually land things on the enemy carry who's constantly moving backwards. Rylais may solve this in the mid-game, but now his damage isn't as high, nor is it a substitute in the laning phase.

8. If you've ever played Rumble, which I hope all of you guys have, you can realize that in the late games, his damage is NOTHING to tanks, and getting to the AD cary is difficult in many ways. I'll represent Rumble's main weakness here: he's a melee caster. While in some ways it can help during laning phase, it's also a reason why Kennen is starting to become less popular as a pick. Both of them have to be in the MIDDLE of a fight to deal the most damage. Now what's wrong with that for casters? Uh wait... they're easily killed, and are quite squishy even with rylais/zhonyas, which are usually late game items.

9. Scare tactic phrases? Main, you guys are really trying to prove Rumble's weak by trying to insult me. Never did I try to use sensationalism and scare tactic phrases. Irelia/Absolutely no presence is completely out of context. Read again what I wrote. A high win/loss ratio? Congrats. Fiddle has a high win loss ratio, around 56% as of last week. Amumu had a 57% win ratio as well. The latter can be seen as very strong, the former? Well, if you want to say Fiddle is OP, should be nerfed, I don't think your opinions matter very much anyways. I'm not saying he's unplayable, I'm saying he's now OUTCLASSED by other top laners, such as Irelia/Jax. Now, what I was trying to get at using Morello is that he stated Rumble would be stronger than pre QoL changes. Which is why I gave that example of 4 ticks vs. 6 ticks.

10. 0 AP? Fine. His base damage is still lower, and now in the overheat area, does even LESS damage with AP. Has a high AP ratio? Of course he needs a high AP Ratio if one of his abilities is single target with a 10 second cd, his ultimate will be run out of, and then his only damage left is his flamespitter. I'm going to refer you again to his melee caster, which is a huge detriment in teamfights; he has to be in the frontline to unload his abilities. What happens if he gets hard cc'd? Can he make it to the carry? Naw. He'll just stand there and do nothing. Moreover, he has his overheat system, which LIMITS the amount of time he can cast abilities. So while he has high AP ratio's, he can't constantly spam out his abilities, like say Cass/Ryze who have DPS like damage, or Anivia who can just position so well.

11. I understand game balance. While you guys can say I'm just annoyed at how he's nerfed, I won't deny it. I am annoyed; he was my favorite champion, that while I admit deserved some nerfs, it wasn't done properly. A good nerf, for example, would be to lower the base damage on Q by 40, reduce his base ms by 5, and reduce his ult's AoE damage while it stays by say 10-20. This would make him easier to kite, he can't move as fast without spending heat on W to catch up, and would lower his strong damage potential.

You guys really need to just learn to read what I actually wrote. The first Anon response was good, so was the 2nd. The rest were just repetition that made no sense as I had already calculated it. Admittedly, the first two had strong responses that did mean that Rumble should receive a nerf, but my opinion expressed is that the nerfs were too much.