Talk:Sejuani/@comment-25532677-20141206201931/@comment-5077844-20141210135840

you say so much to disagree with, but only mention 2 things...

Also, Sejuani is, in no way comparable to Amumu...compare her to Nautilus if you want...but even that'Ss far fetched... Amumu has way easier clear, previously had a lot of sustain with Spectral Wraith, had strong inbuilt damage reduction agaisnt camps  and way more damage earlier even when not building it.

When i say get back into a game, i don't mean by winning a TEamfight to leve out gold advantage... I mean if you get denied early, you have little impact because your actions are limited to your items...no items, not much going on. Sejuani pretty much relies on stats (especially since you couldn't really max Q first or even second, because everything else was just needed mroe) and doesn't get any free damage...amumu kinda does (high base damage on low CD (E), as well as %HP damage consistently (W). Also, don't froget the single target cc nuke with the pwoerful scaling (Q))

Your idea of Amumu being as "weak" as Sejuani seems to originate from a purely subjective point of view...as does mine, but I can say for myself, I've played both of them a lot during the last season and eventually came to the conclusion that overall, everything Sejuani's good at, Amumu can do just as good, all while being safer, more reliable, and powerspiking earlier.

And the reason pre-6 ganks aren't great s because Q's mediocre range...most of the time you have to sue it to jsut get in range for W and E, without acctually getting the knockup off...ganks pretty much only made sense if the enemy laner as pushing hard...with Amumu you might just get a good snipe with your Q and lay down your E for a decent burst of damage, even if they are not far from their tower, then walk back into your jungle, clear something, and repeat. Also, Sejuani's low manapool (previously) and relatively high costs if you do a full combo b´made such poke-ganks not worth it...

Also, saying that Seju can force a flash early is not a good argument...pretty much every jungle with considerable cc can do that...even some who don't have it...only a few junglers can't, and those are the ones you shouoldn't be ganking with pre-6 anyways..

Finally, I don't consider Liandrie's or Iceborn Gauntlet much of a tank item. haunting guise is a good item for a damage focused tankbuild on a champ who has good base stats to begin wth..jungle sejuani is not such a champ...due to her relatively low AP scalings, her jungling and gank damage just doesn't benefit that much and the small health boost isn't THAT Helpful either...I'd say, it rather gives you the illusion of being beefy, and makes you taking risks you shouldn't...Also, it relatively high combine cost (and overall cost) lleaves you fairly squishy throughout it'S buildup, which means that

a) you don#t get much of a damage increase

b) you can't tank that much as well

during the whole process of building it.

Same thing applies ofr Iceborn. Sheen's components are on their own, rather weak on you, glaciall shroud only gives a minimal amount of armor, and overall it takes pretty long until you complete the item to actually get all the stats you're looking for. Which is considerably harder to do if you're not snowballing ahead.

As you can clearly see, my arguments do have a basis, even if it's a subjective one. All you did so far was "your opinion is invalid, because i have a different one!"

Also to finish off, if we'd make a side-by-side comparison of Amumu and Sejuani it'd be pretty clear pretty soon who's the more reliable one of the two is...(season 4 amumu pick and winrate bolsters this claim btw)