Talk:Graves/@comment-27197869-20151111235119

This new graves doesnt do that well as adc. with a really tough time laning on both csing and 2v2 with enermy adc very likely to outrange. the new graves is really kitable, which is wierd as adc.

His dmg tho, outshines everyone at melee range. to me, 3 shots (2 on full reload ammo, and 1 from E) + q + r combo has more than enough dmg to kill anyone u wanted if ur full ad. But how to deliver the dmg is the problem.

i dun think he stand any chance against a good caitlyn as adc.

some say jungle graves is good. i tried that, it was decent. not only he has a very good clear in the jungle, but he can also stay really health during the process thanks to the knock back. i hit 6 as my top/mid laneer hit 6, thats really impressive. well to be fair, some of that speed comes from the fact that i don't even try to gank with graves but imo his 2v2 skirmish with jungle/top alner is actaully really strong early. u can expect enermy jungler not at full health (maybe around 70%) and probably melee. then u could win the 2v2 easily, even tho finishing the kill might be problemetic without any cc.

Overall he has nice clear, good sustain and a good teamfight power. id u farm as gravesa until u hit ur item break point then start forcing it. as a ranged champion. altought u dun that much dmg at max range, but u still can pressure turrets fairly well, id say he is decent jungler, but by no means top tier.

his problem comes with vision control. it takes ages for him to clear a pink ward.

he can work very well with top/mid lane with cc (renek, liss, etc) but can get countered really hard, roaming with a support could help his ward clearing issue. i shd try him in rank team and see how well can he be set up.