Talk:Vayne/@comment-26001789-20150916033933/@comment-8506165-20150917111509

Oh yeah, old Fiora was atrociously designed. Not gonna argue there. But she was also stomping soloQ from Bronze to Diamond without any competitive success and Riot nerfed her for it, so yeah, I bring her up to show that just because a champion isn't strong in competitive doesn't mean they're "balanced" for... well, everyone else that plays League. Competitive is a super-different environment to even ranked 5s.

I think you misunderstand me when I say Vayne's reliable. She's a solid pick who no longer has a bad lane phase, works well with or against most teams, and people don't have to be amazingly good with her to achieve great results. Now as a "high skillcap hypercarry", there's something wrong here - she shouldn't be this hard to shut down in lane, she shouldn't give people anything other than poor results if they're just picking her up because she's FotM, and she shouldn't really be the go-to for any comp. Yeah, as an AAing hypercarry her damage will be "reliable" in that sense, but so is Kog'Maw's and he's not a problem because he has very clearly defined and exploitable weaknesses particularly if you're not willing to build a comp around him.

Re: Lucian, Ashe, Twitch - Lucian's one of those ADCs that never seems to go away no matter how good or bad he is, in my experience. I've seen him played a reasonable amount even when he was one of the lowest winrate ADCs. He is probably stronger than Graves right now though. Ashe is getting busted out in competitive as a counter to juggernauts from what I hear, but either way, maybe she's not in need of buffs either. Will admit I forgot about her. Twitch.... ehh. Not convinced a buff to his stealth when he's gotten caught is going to solve his issue of having one of the worst laning phases of all ADCs. Morde was OP as shit as a "botlane juggernaut" in 5.17 for solo queue, but 5.18 hit him reasonably hard I think - won't eliminate him, but may well bring him into line. Will have to wait and see.