Talk:Veigar/@comment-24491481-20151015193019/@comment-26433263-20151018154632

"Spells unless comboed are supposed to have a similar balanced value baseline. Dark Matter is a straight out damage spell, and thus is very easy to see the base value of. If champion A had a spell that costs 200 mana to do 50 damage, and champion B had a spell that costs 50 mana to do 200 damage, with no additional spell effects and delays, can you still outright say "Champion A has an okay spell, the rest of his unknown kit will balance it out!"."

Not they shouldn't, spells are balanced around the entire champion's kit. If a champion kit can make a spell better or easier to use than you can't compre them into a vaccuum with another completely champion with a similar spell. A champion will never use a single spell, it will use his entire kit to synergize (most of time) with said spells.

That's where the Dark matter VS Rupture ends, cho gath's has a knoc up, better ratio, lower delay because he can't farm AP or zone the enemy as veigar, and his other spells can't even compare to the burst of Veigar's kit, because Cho needs to be at a much closer range to use his silence, E and R.

Lemme show another example: Soraka's Q is a better Xerath's W except for the scaling: It heals soraka, half of the cooldown. So Soraka should be a better mage than Xerath. But that's not the case, because her Q is the only way to do damage while xerath has 3 other spells to do more damage.

So saying that Dark Matter should not be nerfed becauser Rupture is a better spell and no one complains is a falacy, like i said a zilean times before. Cho gath's kits doesn't make rupture easier to land, where Veigar's do and it will cause a bunch more damage.

 "If you played Hearthstone, then you'd understand the skill of looking for the base value of card, and how card text builds upon base value by adding combos, positives and negatives." 

This is not hearthstone, this is LoL, and yes i never played it. Irregardless, the base values are not the only thing you should see, you should see the whole kit to understand why a spell is powerful or not.