Talk:Veigar/@comment-25932195-20151022151126

What do yall think of getting one of the items that also scale with AP second, instead of voidstaff (which would be grabbed 3rd)? Luden's Echo, Lichbane, and Hextech Gunblade would all add extra kill power to his combo.

Lichbane would also increase his siegeing power, or as an alternative take smite, upgrade to chilling smite, and use the more utility in Runeglaive. Smite midlane works on some champions still, and prior to picking up Runeglaive smite can be used on cannon minions to fast push and land Q's quicker. After chilling smite, the speed buffer helps kite and land his W. Also, Chilling Smite would proc spell effects such as Luden's Ekko. Both Runeglaive and Lichbane make great trading tools against some midlaners, as one could last hit with Q then harass with an empowered AA.

Luden's gives a great amount of MS, and if Q is used properly should be fast pushing by hitting 3 mostly alive minions, or hitting the enemy champion. The movement, with Alacrity boots, does a great deal for kiting and positioning, while making Q have a bigger impact, and W easier to land.

Hextech Gunblade brings a nice active which slows and scales off AP. On top of that it provides some sustain. While the scaling is quite weak, the slow helps escape, or secure a well placed W for an easy combo. 150 base damage +40% AP isn't much to start with, but between the active, the spellvamp, and the forever scaling damage could be useful. The active also applies spell effects, so it could be used to trigger Luden's Ekko for targeted damage.

With the items explained, possible builds would be: [Morello's or Athene's, Voidstaff, Rab's and Sorc Shoes would be in every build] 1) Luden's, Hextech - sustain, targeted cc, and extra burst 2) Lich, Rylai's - kiting, catching, and sieging 3) Runeglaive, Luden's - kiting, catching, sieging, burst, neutral objective control, but sacrificies a summoner.