Talk:Kindred/@comment-27325846-20151201052532/@comment-5955640-20151201065640

You've gotten off on the wrong foot with "Riot intentionally releases broken champs." Statement.

Such an annoying myth that's easily debunked when you realize that champs come out literally broken (Azir) and underpowered (Bard).

But lets not spend all day there when everything else you have stated here is wrong as well.

Kindred Snowballs hard.

Not really. Seriously she has to either get marks from jungle creeps which have a limit and a restriction or marks from people in lane which is limited to just how available that target is for marking. You mark a difficult to kill opponent and you lose valuable time.

They have to get those marks as well because Kindred has the third lowest base AD in the game. All of it's damage is in the E, Early game Q is supposed to carry you through some fights but late game it really falls off and becomes a really short dash with extremely minor poke.

Kindred sorely lacks hard CC. 70% slow for one second is absolutely nothing compared to some of the best gankers and even some marksman for bottom lanes have better lockdown CC for a gank.

The only spell that really dynamically changes a fight is her ult and it's probably because players still don't quite know what they should and shouldn't do in the field when it's triggered.

You REALLY speak from ignorance when you say that this is the first champ that rewards a lack of skill. Almost every unchanged champ from Alpha are mechnically simple champions that can offer the sort of reward a high skill champion will give you (for there is only one reward).

The difference is in how successful this champion design is in more skilled hands against more skilled players hence why only more recent champs with complex kits, special gimmicks, and updated kits make it onto the pro scene as opposed to face roll champs with a very glaring weakness that's easy to exploit.

Kindred is honestly on the higher skillset because you have to manage the marks. You have to use her Q correctly, you have to get used to her sustain mechanic, you have to understand the wolf field, you have to pick your marks wisely, and you have to ult at the exact right time and have it save an ally as opposed to an enemy.

Graves, Renekton, Lee Sin, and Leblanc were not dominating their respective lanes at the same time. I have no idea what time you could be referring to.

Graves took off shortly after the nerfs to Lucian made him a less suitable choice for a caster. In his wake Lucian mains just jumped to Graves and Graves became a legitmate flavor of the month as he melted faces with his only play style (in your face bully that blows you up with a Q R combo). He was not buffed that whole time. Player Meta alone made him playable.

Renekton has always been a really strong champ choice with his very well rounded kit with very few weakness. To be honest he still isn't a bad choice right now. Seriously I can't give you an honest counter or drawback to him other than the skill of the player out performing Renekton because again, he's a very simply designed champion and thus has peak performance that can be out done with more complexity and skill.

Lee Sin is. Actually it's probably been the long time in awhile where Lee Sin wasn't a go to pick. He's so mechnically overloaded that he's consistently useful to an extent at all times since his release. Sometimes he's in every match when his map control and early game damage is out right untouchable and other times he becomes useless as he doesn't offer a strong enough battle impact depending on the meta and the opponents. He got a buff recently but it still stands. Lee Sin is super flexible and doesn't bend to meta in a way to where you never get to see him.

Lastly Leblanc is totally part of the cavalcade of assassins that are too binary at their design at killing people and getting away. It's such a thorough plague to the game health that it will need it's own patch a future preseason update. As a result the only thing that keeps assassins down is nerfs to them, nerfs to their items, and buffs to everyone else.

Even then Leblanc's notorious mobility still speaks for itself and she can probably be safely classed as a pubstomper if it wasn't for her nearly non-existent teamfight potential (she'd be lucky to kill a target if the whole team isn't there to peel and lock her down before her dash ends).

Some champs are genuinely designed to be early game champs because their kits have poor scaling, more still are mid game champs that peak in performance, and more still are late game champs that are designed to be nearly impossible to combat in late game.

Every state has a wide variety of variables that each player controls by making the correct choices to control the flow of a match to where it's in their favor. At this current time snowballing is in as it's the way marksmen win games (some are late game hyper carries but all of them want a good lead in early) so right now the game naturally ends somewhere around the 20-30 minute mark.

To make a long story short. No. Kindred does not need nerfs. You need to practice on playing against a Kindred more. There is no Kindred bot however so just wait till they are free and play them to get a better understanding of the character.