Talk:Fiora/@comment-25548760-20150807083703

I actually can't understand the purpoise of this rework. I prob still miss where and what this new fiora is supposed to be.

Focus on those point :

1 - Where fiora is supposed to go and how she's supposed to gain the lead

2 - Which build are supposed to work on her

3 - Which role she cover on a teamfight / game phase

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1 - Considering her passive, ulti, no wave clear and low single target sustained damage, Fiora jungler is definetely NOT an option. On mid she would fit only versus another ad based champ, but i doubt she would have easy times ( with her low engage range, thx to remove of double lunge ) versus the scaling of the Fizz/Zed/Talon and all the unusual mid laner one can find around ( j4 pure ad ). So the only remaining place for her is top, where her kit should supposed to shine the lane of uber tank hp stacker ( maokai, cho, gnar, voli, nasus, darius )[A] ,sustained damage mage ( vlad, rumble, lis )[B] or uber duelist with unreal lategame  ( jax, irelia, trynda  / panteon, riven ) [C]. Without itemization, her kit give some sort of really short trade burst :  procching vital spot and activating autoattack reset. So she's supposed to go in, drop some damage, and retreat before enemy wave crash you down or enemy trade you for more damage than the one you dish out. She can't even keep dishing out damage ( no more attack speed on E, or a nice Ad bonus who will give a bit of advatange ) and at the same time she miss a form of damage reduction ( no reliable cc, not even a shield ) .So the only option she got to retreat after the fast trade is...a move speed buff ? On chart, could works. On reality ? Oh plz. The [A], uber tank, got enought cc to lock down in place and force you to suffer minion retalation plus their low damage, plus they got a real way to recover hp lost after on ( The only way new fiora got to recover hp back is .. trying again to trade versus enemy, and being locked down again ). The [B], sustained mage, got enought sustained damage to chase you down trought your retreat ( again their damage + minion > your burst ). The [C], duelist with hight scaling but low early, actually may suffer this trade, but a good player will just keep dancing inside is way until he got his powerspike, giving little to no chance to force trade on them, confident on the fact they will outscale anyway. So you have to force fight early to set lead/zone them away, or to be overhelmed after. On neither of those 3 case fiora shine versus an equally skilled enemy. So we move to the second option : we sit on lane and ... farm passively .Even on this scenario we miss a wave clear, we miss skill who got boosted by this gameplay ( hight basic scaling, or passive effect ), we miss innate sustain ( our passive focus on aggressive play on enemy, not passive farming ) and i still find hard time trying to see her lv6 like an huge powerspike to reach. The picture that came up after this point of view is a pretty mediocre laning phase champ.

2 - From Rioter's word, her kit should be supposed  ( always on chart ) to give her time to dish out more sustained damage without the need of an heavy investiment in a glass cannon build. That's true. Her true damage on proc is a nice boost in damage but.. at which cost this buff came  ? We lose her little sustain ( hp regen ), we lost tower melting ability ( e ), exteded fight potential ( E + mov speed bonus + orbwalk + increased Ad ), and easy engage potential ( q+q ). What we gain in turn is the true damage on vital proc, a small frame of invunerability. The possibile build path are, like someone of you suggest :

A - Assassin fiora, the i won't change my approach. Full damage, full burst oriented. Works better on old fiora but could work in new one, buts it's like playing ap rengar : could works, but it's a waste for what the kit offer. Assassin Fiora is still squisci, still got problem to reach enemy backline ( even more right now ) and  chance she melt down a low hp target are inferior

B - CDR fighter focused on burst, the way she should supposed to be played. Cdr to abuse her lunge reset, hp and resistance to complement around her "heal". Someone suggest new fiora works around one offensive item, two if on lead, than full tank. Even considering new juggernout item ( the titanic hydra and the tanky one ), she still miss the base bonus of other tanky to supplement this suggested play style: she miss what synergize so well with "tank items" ( shield, damage reduction, bonus amor/mr/hp ). Building tanky won't give her bonus an equal amount on effective hp/ resistance like other tanky, neither her base compensate from the damage she lost  delaying offensive item.

But for one second let's considering that the intended Riot's build works ( B ). And let's move on and let's try to "mix" all those consideration.

3 - Now we're on teamfight. We were top, so we deny our team a strong tank/iniziator in that position. We have to wait our "supporter" or "jungler" engage, than we follow up. As soon the teamfight erupt, we got hard time reaching the backline and droopping down enought damage to 100-0 their carry ( we miss a long range gap close to reach them, an havy cc to drop them down enought time to allow another follow up, we miss damage to take him 100-0, or survaibility to do it with a lot of offensive item and survive ). This force us to focus on the " nearest big tanky target ". We pop ulti on him, pam, we proc some vital, we deal some serius damage and prob we also proc our Heal on our team but.. what wrong on this ? That's actually we're wasting 2/5 of our team resource ( not only fiora's one ) on the enemy target who's supposed to eat all their damage. New fiora is made to melt tank, but in order to melt tank she need a tankish char to open for her. So all her gamestyle work around "let's hope my vital proc fast enought to kill their tank before the enemy melt me down ". Cause the enemy team won't sit there and watch meanwhile their tank is soaking damage: a fiora lack the tanky scaling to soak all the damage she will suffer sitting on mid ground position under heavy fire of enemy carry, that fiora can only hope to melt down and proc ulti before enemy melt ther down ( a tanky fiora ... an assassin will be down after not even a single vital proc ). Isn't this a bit to linear ? WE can't go back line, we can't peel, we can only help tanking down big iniziator ( bigger than us thx to the full tank itemization and scaling ) wihtout even having realiable way to mitigate his cc/base damage or enemy follow up. After that all fiora resource are over.

So the real question is : fiora isn't supposed to be an assassin, or a backdoorer. Fiora is supposed to be an fighter focused on taking down a single big target fast enought to allow her team to avalanche ( after him engage on team, or after one of your team engage ). So if this is all what she bring, why play fiora? There's way more interesting champ with the same focus ( Trundle ), with a more realiable scaling on tankiness/damage ( shyvana ), or better follow up ( darius ). Into a team oriented vision, we waste a top slot ( ++gold ) for a champ who's supposed to counter the tank top laner enemy, but that bring a poor/unreliable damage and a even more poor utility.

The old fiora was niche : perfect to counter very fews matchup and able to carry a game alone in that situation. A situational pick, with her limits, but with her sense.

On the new one they tried to make a less restrictive champion to pick, but we end having a " jack of everything, good at nothing" binary champ, outshined by all the others heavy focused champs. And with the realease of juggernaut champions/item patch, this gap will be even more sad.