Talk:Katarina/@comment-24621775-20150526012829/@comment-9705522-20150528222948

Well, Lolking has this nice tool called the "statistics tab". It notes all pick and win rates for a while. On my screen its back to 20. April. Ashes rework was, naturally, released 14. may. So, if what you said is true, we should be seeing a spike, shouldnt we? Well, we dont. Its a pretty steady hovering around 52% win rate. Oh and btw, its not been 54% in the last month either. I tried seperating by regions or ranked/normal, but again, no such spike.

So, yeah, your 57% win rate spike? Never happened. Not to mention that it couldnt happen, because as soon as the rework was released, her pick rate spiked as well.

Not quite. What it did is fundamentally change her crit behaviour. Considering many ADC mains are aware that ADC vs ADC battles turned into a match of pure luck, hers turning consistent throws everything a little aside. But even then, it didnt change.

Darius. Not low pick rate. 8% is about average. Even 7% is almost average. I told you, it only starts mattering below 5%, and it only becomes huge below 2%/1%. So, we have no effect from the low pick rate, as he has no low pick rate.

Next, difficulty. He is fairly easy, if you compare him to a mid pick. Thats however not quite how it works, as you need to compare champion to its own role (well, that does make sense seeing how we are always comparing champions to each other, so you wouldnt compare an ADC to a support). Compared to his role, whose most prominent member right now are  Vlad, Maokai, Gnar, Irelia, well, he isnt very difficult, but he isnt extremely easy either. Lower end of difficulty, but not major like, say, Katarina is.

Ability to abuse mistakes, sort of, sort of not. He does it decently against enemies without any way to get away from him, and who get close enough to him and arent tanky. Thats not a lot of enemies. He can abuse mistakes, occasionally, but those mistakes are rare, and compared to what others in his role can do (Maokai and Gnar in particular), not impressive.

Counter potential. This one I gotta disagree from the perspective of someone who mostly plays against Darius. Its EXTREMELY easy to counter the guy. This guy hates kiting. And kiting just happens to be quite common. Kalista alone is an instant win against him. And he also doesnt fare well against teams where everyone is tanky. Because his ult is strongest against people with low HP (sure, its true damage and ignores resistances, but keep in mind, most tankiness currently comes from HP. And he isnt good at dealing with high amounts of HP). Not to mention, all the Urgots running around. So yeah, really easy to counter, especially now.

So, we have no low pick rate, relatively low difficulty, relatively good ability to abuse mistakes, pretty good power (he is actually strong, he just doesnt fare well against a lot of the current stuff), abysmal counter potential. Yeah, about 48% or slightly higher than that seems about right. So, No, not a counterexample.

Now Lissandra is really interesting actually. Her pick rate is relatively low, but its not enough to be a massive effect (just as a note here, see it as an exponentional function, where it rises higher the closer you get to 0. Basically something like 1/x). Still, enough for a couple %. Difficulty. About even.

Ability to abuse mistakes. Low actually. The problem here is that she is reliable. Because she is reliable, that means that the difference between "mistake" and "not a mistake" is basically not there. And what does she do when she gets to you? Well, she stuns you and does ... pretty low damage. This isnt bad, but compared to someone like Annie, who actually loves to abuse mistakes, or Leblanc, Cassiopeia, Fizz, even Azir, who lack the reliability and actually rely on mistakes, but in turn are so much better when you do a mistake, yeah, its not impressive.

Her power is also really low now. She got nerfed and then the meta kicked her even harder, which is a shame, but such is the fate of champions.

Now, counter potential. This one is kinda odd. When played mid lane, there are few champions she is actually good against. Katarina is, ironically enough, one of them. On the other hand, she herself is countered by other mid laners, namely poke mid laners. She cant deal well with them thanks to her low range, until she has her ult. But at that point most of them wont even get close to her and just farm from afar. She kinda gets stranded. Top is a little more lopsided against her. She cant deal with tanks well, top lane are all tanks.

So, we have a relatively even difficulty (actually relatively high when top lane, since most top laners are just that easy, but lets ignore that). Her pick rate is slightly low, but not in the red area of <2%. Her power is really low, her counter potential sort of even (it really depends). So, what would we expect? Well, her power is abysmal. Like, no getting around it, she sucks. While it is the 3d most important factor, the negative value is huge. The pick rate is low, but that only can make up for a couple% (in fact, since she is at 4%, its probably 1-2% tops). Difficulty and counter potential are even. Ability to abuse mistakes is low.

48% is rather good considering her relatively low pick rate. And thats what she has, 47-48% (unless you go normals, where she has 46-51%, which is too much fluctuation.).

Since this is getting long, ill just make Yi short. 8% pick rate, not low at all. Low difficulty? Yi is actually really difficult. Proper timing on Q, ability to use W aa resets and proper timing on W itself are crucial. There is a reason Cowseps Yi looks so different from, say, my Yi. Ability to abuse mistake. Probably the best one at that, actually. Outside of Galio, I guess.

Power. Not very high actually. And sorry, but basing it on arbitrary numbers such as kill count (hint, it calculates that of all champions. Including support and top. It also compares Yi, a damage jungler, to the current tank meta, with tank junglers. Need I say more?) is pretty irrelevant. He has high potential, but he can also be shut down pretty hard. His power by itself is not very high.

So that also went straight out the window. Of course, these 5 arent the only ones, but they are the strongest ones. And Power is not even that important.

Yeah, but you were the one arguing that power is indicative of win rate, when it clearly is not. So I dont even follow what you are trying to prove right now. Besides, Katarina is currently picked on average, so saying that she is "abused" is wrong. Especially since her pick rate in competitive is currently lower than that of Poppy (Poppy was picked twice. Katarina was never picked), while Kassadin at his prime hovered at 99%.