Talk:Vayne/@comment-7095057-20150511032743/@comment-7095057-20150511073941

The point Im making here is that kog'maw isn't being played as an ADC. Even in the most recent games he wasn't being played as an ADC, but a ''Mage. ''That's a key difference in where he's being played at competitively, and why he shouldn't be counted right now. He's not considered an ADC professionally. And clearly you're missing the point here that I've stated twice: ''From what I've been seeing of her lately. Once Vayne gets to late game she doesn't even need her W to kill a good deal of the champs in the current Meta. At that point W only serves to kill tanks, which even then takes 1 or 2 procs.''

My point is simply put this: Her steriod makes her too strong late game. To the point that even putting a pink down means nothing when she can auto you twice and shred 60-100% of your hp without procing her W. That alone makes her very hard to counter, especially if she engages first, as most vaynes that wait to pick off players like that will ult and use their invisibility to engage first. Unless you're pinking because you can predict her coming in, you're going to get shot three times before she even gets her next Q up.

The whole "She's weak in lane. She's very support dependent. She has bad range." arguments are all bad arguments when late game none of that really matters. And in a season where games tend to go well into the mid-late game pretty easily, she's somewhat of an issue in that regard.

I'll reiterate my point for a third time: The fact that Vayne can kill without procing her Silver Bolts from full hp is an issue. Especially given she can do it to some bruisers in the game right now like Jax and Riven (as examples)