Talk:Sejuani/@comment-11094777-20130918155443/@comment-9048637-20130927154208

I fully realize that Sejuani is horribly weak against counter-jungling. Hell, back before her nerfs when a lot of people were complaining that she was OP, I was there pointing out that if you just play aggressively against her early on, she becomes a lot less scary. And yes, I do realize that duelling power is both helpful and necessary if you're being counter-jungled. In fact, I'm pretty sure that in my original post here, I said that if I was being counter-jungled hard, I would max W first instead of E (apologies if I didn't make that fully clear).

Perhaps I just have better luck than you. The people I play against almost never seem to realize just how weak Sejuani's early jungle is. On the other hand, I can't count the number of times I've been glad to have such a strong ganker simply due to the number of fires I'm having to put out on all the lanes. That's why I run Boots of Mobility. Having said that, I should point out that I do swap them out late game (if it gets that far) for Ninja Tabi. So I don't fully disagree with you on that point. Back to my (perhaps) better luck, there's also the fact that I tend to play a lot with friends rather than in solo queue, so I tend to have team-mates who are a little more on the ball when I do wind up being invaded (and who I can immediately tell about it on TeamSpeak, admittedly...).

Oh, and I think you may have misinterpreted what I was saying about objective control. I wasn't implying in the slightest that as Sejuani you shouldn't try to contest Dragon; that would be rather silly. My point was, rather, that you shouldn't play Sejuani as someone whose strength is in contesting Dragon and other objectives. Different junglers are good at different things; if there were a jungler who was just good at everything a jungler is meant to do, then they'd be boring and a little OP (ohai Lee Sin >_> ). Compared with other junglers, such as Shyvana, Nunu and Cho'Gath, Sejuani's objective control is mediocre at best, so skilling to maximize it as a general rule seems a little questionable to me. Of course, I have also said that if, for whatever reason, the situation does make objective control my main priority anyway, then I will skill around that (i.e. W first). But I don't find that the case in most of my games.

As a final point before we completely drop this in the spirit of different preferences, I'll say that perhaps we're both guilty here of making a mountain out of a molehill. You've raised the point a number of times that the rewards for levelling E are somewhat underwhelming, but honestly, when it comes to early game at least, I could say the same of W. In comparison to levelling E, all you get in terms of damage is 10 extra, and that's assuming you get the full duration off on someone hit by the original enhanced AA. What levelling W does give you, of course, is the reduced cooldown, but I don't feel that that's so important early on. It's a rare gank when you'll get to pop W twice even with it fully levelled (unless you've somehow also achieved max CDR in that time), and even in duels, early on neither party is likely to have the durability for things to last that long. The only early-game situation where the reduced cooldown would, I think, be Dragon attempts. But I've already discussed my views on skilling with that in mind.

Anyway, I've no doubt, after talking to you here, that you're a good Sejuani player, and I respect your style of play. It's just not the way I play her. I see her DPS as nice, but less important than her CC (which, compared with Naut's, is more AoE than single-target, which can be nice situationally). You seem to view both as equally valuable, and that's fair enough. We'll just have to agree to disagree.