Talk:Yasuo/@comment-25223119-20150308133440/@comment-25223119-20150309203816

@Planters

While I agree you made some good points. Generally...

In terms of Windwall's versatility, of course players walk around the wall to get to Yasuo. But what about the times where in Yasuo predicts your skills? This isn't a fair counterplay to begin with. Regardless of how skilled Yasuo players are, even the noobish ones are capable of blocking skills with walls. And also, it's not everytime a player has the opportunity to walk around the wall to reposition. In team fights, there is just too little time for that to happen. Of course, one can make time, but the fact is, having a 5-man team walk around the wall to get to Yasuo is unfair. With that wall, he can buy time for his team to whittle down enemies. Even Braum's wall blocks one single projectile and allows subsequent projectiles to pass through. I agree with that sort of wall. A wall that lingers around for 4 seconds and blocks almost everything when well timed is very very unhealthy, because then, enemies are left with no counterplay options.

Is this the Yasuo Player's fault? No, they demonstrated good skills. Is it the enemy's fault? Not really, because no one could predict and accurately pinpoint Yasuo's wall CD. Even if a player had knowledge of CDR and how it interacts with his Wall's CD, timing is something hard to pull off. So what is the problem? Yasuo's Wall being too good. If though, it was something like Morg's Spell Shield (generic and not unique) I wouldn't mind. If it's a wall, maybe Braum's wall would be a balanced one.

Mobility

Again, using spells or indirect methods to shut down Yasuo is not a strong argument. I get what you mean, but I hope you understand that I am referring to kit weaknesses. Sure, Exhaust, CCs all counter him. But what about his own kit weakness? 0.5 infinite dashes based on number of enemies is pretty significant. This is stronger than Ahri's dash that only occurs .75 after every dash, and hers is an ultimate. Yasuo just can't simply have that much mobility.

Lastly, the argument about Orianna and Malphite. Take note that both champions have long base cooldowns, even with 40% CDR, they still have pretty long cooldowns. At best, they have 60-70 seconds of cooldown. I wouldn't mind if that happens, but a Yasuo has his ult up just after every team fights, and every time he returns to lane from base, it's up. 30 SECONDS BASE COOLDOWN is a lot. Even Lux, who probably has the lowest CD in her ult (as compared to the rest of champions) can only bring down her ult to 30 seconds if she fully maxes CDR out. I approve of this. But Yasuo, with a base cooldown of 30 seconds and being a mid carry, who would have kills in a game, getting the blue off the enemy AP MId is no difficult problem. Even with 20% CDR blue, he has about 6 seconds reduction, so base reduction is around 24 seconds at level 3 ultimate. 20 seconds is the average time it takes for a champion to travel down to lane from base without homeguard. This mean he has it up very quickly.

And going back to synergy, I really have no problem with Yasuo ult-ing a 5 man team. I have a problem with him in that he doesn't need to land a Q knock up and instead depend on champions like Orianna and Malphite ult and press R and just watch bodies fall. This is why I mentioned perhaps his Q could amp the damage from his ult, that would be balanced.

Guys, I really have nothing against Yasuo. But every game I play, if there is an enemy Yasuo in it, it's either a loss or a 50/50 thing in it. It's not because I can't play against him, I've had my fair share of stomping Yasuos. But a Yasuo can quickly recover with just one/two items and snowball the entire game. Even in SoloQ, people learn quickly and that's why Yasuo never falls out. It takes one team mate to die on his hands, and he'll instantly recover like Katarina or pre-nerfed Akali, but with much more utility to cover his ass if he fails. And speaking of Katarina and Akali, they don't have utility to cover their asses if they fail. If they fail, they die. Yasuo doesn't.

I'm sorry man. I would rather rework him or shift his utilies around. Upright nerfing him is a must, especially with the values. But the utilities on his kit needs to go. Reflecting back on what I learnt from Riot in patch 5.4 on Janna's passive nerf.

"A champion who is so good at disengaging shouldn't be so good at engaging too".

In Yasuo I believe.

"A champion who is so good at outputting damage shouldn't be so good at mitigating damages"

There are a few ways Yasuo can go.

Have mobility and depend on his mobility to outplay skillshots (like Riven)

OR

Have his wall to mitigate skillshots and have a toned down mobility so that other Mids won't be throwing skillshots in to the air or north, south, east, west in to nothingness.