Talk:Garen/@comment-76.21.69.228-20120518043039/@comment-202.177.218.59-20120520235817

That sort of argument is really invalid given that I could also say every Garen you've played was just bad. The fact is you can't just poke Garen a little. He has far superior sustain to Riven thanks to his passive. His silence stops your Q combo for the duration of his spin which in early levels will own your hp. Riven has no ranged ability to let her farm therefore even if you dash/shield/stun away from Garen, he's just going to free farm and zone you which is just as bad as dying to him.

Garen has lost a lot of strength thanks to people learning more about countering him and the introduction of many new champs. He's now used as a counter pick for top rather than a default pick because he does poorly against many champs but also completely shuts down other champs. Riven falls into the latter category.