Talk:Nidalee/@comment-4834593-20140102163649/@comment-9008617-20140123084539

"Do you know what the difference between you and me is? You are theorizing, I have seen it ingame."

No, the difference between you and me is that you only provide anecdotal evidence.  You then base your opinion on that same lack of evidence and facts. I can claim I've seen a real-life Urgot but ain't no one going to believe me.

I don't even like the term "theorizing" as that suggests I'm presenting ideas that could be true or false. Rather,  I'm about using the facts and numbers we have presented to us and which, by their nature, are axiomatic.

"Her Q is very hard to be theorized about. No matter how good you understand this game, there will always be a difference in how often you think someone gets hit, and how often someone actually gets hit (people always say "but noone above silver ever gets hit by one" and stuff, but then why is she picked in the LCS sometimes? Not to mention that the LCS clearly shows even pros can't dodge every spear)."

If you actually read my points, I never once mentioned or assumed you would be missing Q's as Nid. Rather, I brought up the prohibitively expensive mana costs, the restrictive range for max damage, the slow projectile speed, the lack of AD scaling on the spears, and lack of magicpen on an ADC.

"Her E is mostly an attack speed buff, and a pretty neat one at that. The only ones that have both duration and strength as long as Nidalee are, if I am not mistaken, Nunu (melee) and Tristana (one of the three hypercarries). And Nidalee is, again if I'm not mistaken, the only ranged champion in the game that can have her attack speed buff permanently with as only reduction of the duration CDR (so not a Runaan's Graves or something like that. Just simple cdr). And to get that 30%... 5% masteries, 15% boots (berserker's greaves suck, so why not buy cdr instead?), and maybe you can get a blue or something? Or just leave it at 20 and have 82.5% uptime of your AS buff."

Because you just traded the permanent 25% AS from masteries (5%) and berserkers (20%) for the 60% AS from a skill effectively making it 35% more than you would normally get with aforementioned build.

Even if had 30% CDR and you could spam it every 7 seconds, at 140 mana a pop you would get about 7 uses (~49 seconds assuming CD starts on cast) before you'd be out of mana assuming you don't use mana for anything else.

And like I said before, if you to cougar form you have to switch back to re-activate the AS buff.

Also building CDR on ADCs comes at the cost of AS, AD, Crits, and lifesteal.

"Her melee Q: Let me just tell you that I myself didn't believe the insane damage I pumped out with that thing as AD carry Nidalee. Mostly when coupled with Thresh or Leona burst and my W and E of melee form. Heck, I'm not even building Sheen on Nidalee and I already kill AD carries from 30% health at level 6. And whatever you can say about it, it's simply facts that I deal so much damage against someone who just has armor seals and a doran's blade."

You sound like a really bad TV salesperson with that pitch:

"Folks, let me tell you!!  I didn't believe it the first time myself when I heard of Canned Oxy's canned oxygen!!  But believe you me that Canned Oxy made me a belieber!!"

Sorry, couldn't help myself. XD

And no, "simply facts" are the numbers that Wikia has laid before us and that I have tried to incorporate.

Anecdotal evidence. At max I calculated the armor mitigated damage to be 277. That number was based on if the target was missing 100% health since Nid's melee Q scales off missing her (2% per 1% missing up to a bonus of 200%) - which I hope you can tell is unrealistic.

At level 6 and 30% health, as you're suggesting, an ADC like Ezreal would have 830 base * 0.30 = 249 health

30% health means 70% missing health

Therefore, Nid's melee Q would do:

(100% + 2 x 70%) (40 + AD)

= 240% (40 + AD)

= 240% (40 + 100)

= 336 dmg

Factor in basic armor runes and base armor scalings at level 6 to be about 50:

(100/150) (336 dmg) = 224 actual damage

249 health > 224 damage

So close but no. The target would have to be below 30%. I'm ballparking around 25% or less.

Still, I'm not discounting the skill. It's definitely a good execute on low health targets but it has so many weaknesses namely it being melee range. When your target is at 25% health or less and your support manages to CC them, pretty much any ADC can finish the job without having to be right on top of them unlike Nidalee. Summoner spells like Ignite, barrier, and exhaust also comes to mind.

Not to take this conversation too off the tracks, but honestly, I think I'd rather have Pantheon in bot lane since the Mantheon's spears can't miss, he provides a gap closing hard CC, and both basic attacks AND spearshot gain 100% crit chance when the target is below 15% effectively making his AAs and spears execution moves.

"Her escape: yeah, she can't damage in the meanwhile, if it's more than one enemy chasing her (if it's only one you turn around and wreck them with that broken Q). But she's still better at escaping than, say, Kog'maw or Varus (without 100s cd ult)."

The point is that she can't damage as much as other ADCs.

Her escape is definitely one of the better ones for prolonged chases, no one's arguing that, but she can't safely do as much of her damage in the backline as the other carries.

And no, her Q isn't going to wreck anyone unless they were already low in which case I don't see why they're chasing you and not vice versa...

"All I can REALLY say though, is try it yourself, and you will see."

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