Talk:Garen/@comment-3493296-20141009114105/@comment-25660105-20141120061433

This is all dodging the real problem that the buff to BOTRK made building straight tank a bad idea, which is formerly what made Garen amazing and ultimately what lead to Rammus becoming amazing despite being played by next to no one earlier. Since Rammus can just stack armor for days and still have enough damage to win trades, and every armor point gives you less resistance than the one before it, so even a last whisper doesn't do alot that much against him because he just has so much armor. Cause if you got 300 armor, Last Whisper plus the penetration mastery is gonna pierce through 123 armor, but the difference between the damage reduction provided by 300 armor and 177 armor is not that much. The change to BOTRK crippled Garen and other straight tank champions like Volibear, Dr. Mundo, Shen, and Sejuani. Although Sejuani got to still do something because AP Sej actually does a lot of damage, so she found a way to still be good enough (not for ranked soloque at high elos, but for a nice team builder with friends, AP Sej is fine). Even with super-healing passives like Garen, Dr. Mundo, and Volibear, BOTRK does more damage to these champions than they can heal 5 seconds, and can do it way more times than once in that time. With BOTRK the way it is, Rammus and Maokai are pretty much the only champions left in the meta that still builds straight tank. Now, you need off-tanks who can actually deal a little bit of damage and have 2 -4 tanky items like Vi, Irelia, Gnar, Rengar, and Jarvan IV. If they made his passive have a flat amount instead of scaling with his health, Garen could possibly fit into this category, as he would be able to splitpush with the help of his E's waveclear and his Q's ability proc on turrets, and he can use it to escape and get his passive going, and he wouldn't have to build assloads of health to make his passive relevant. Another thing they could do, actually, is make Garen use mana. I know the fact that he doesn't use mana seems like a big asset, but Frozen Heart is huge in the meta right now, and you can't reliably build it on garen because it cuts out a huge part of the gold efficiency. If they made 1 or 2 of those changes, Garen could jump up in viability, maybe not to tier 1 or 2, but 3 or 4, easily.

Or you could just skip all that mumbo jumbo, stop hating on tanks and just nerf BOTRK.