Talk:Shyvana/@comment-16180701-20130822024933/@comment-16180701-20130825051137

"Bullshit. Shield, hard CC, armor shred, attack speed buff, on hit, and the ability to disengage. Shyv has an AA reset and some free armor. J4 wins, *won* actually. Saying he didn't is ignoring how dominant he was until he got nerfed as well as some core items."

Shield - Laughable except for slow, which is negated by Burnout.

Attack Speed Buff - Shyv does 2% of his hp per hit on top of an aura of magic damage, on top of something better than his attack speed buff on Q.

Tankiness - Shyv will just be tankier than j4 he's weak b/c of all his CC. If he can't use that to turn the fight on shyv he won't win. And he can't. Shyv barely feels that knockup because her burnouts still on him the entire time.

Disengage - Yah he can try to run, tho he can be caught easily esp after 6. But he will be forced to run or die that's what winning an engage means. It means if you both stand there, use your abilities right, and fight Shy will win. J4 has 3 forms of CC. He ganks better. He isnt' a duelist. he loses a duel. It's pretty simple logic.

"With what? Harsh language? Other bruisers I mentioned had actual hard engages that could safely initiate, several didn't even need to pop ulti to do this."

Your reading comprehension is bad. Read what I wrote maybe? Picture this, J4 ganking bot lane. He uses his close and knocks people in the air. You're nearby and ready b/c you expect it and counter gank him. Suddenly engage! omg. Hard.

"Shyvana isn't much better than average for a jungle duelist, and that's not helped by her atrocious sustain."

There aren't many deulists in the game period really. And currently for junglers Shyv is the most viable.

I guess the j4 fan club is coming out QQing about their beloved j4. See you in plat newbs lol yah right. Bronzies all up in mah thread yo.