Talk:Jarvan IV/@comment-4900160-20150106204544/@comment-15244341-20150113190159

Or, you can pick Leona and actually play support. Kill lanes are funny, but there is a reason people keep playing support as support. When the lane doesn't get fed then Jarvan is just a walking knockup with no staying power at all.

Also, Black Cleaver is not a support item. Is an anti-armor item that, on JIV helps him kill armor stackers. He can actually apply it to 1 target and that's it, unlike Wu, whose ult basically guarantees 2 to 3 people with armor shredded. Saying his armor shred is better utility than anything Leona can do is delusional, BTW.

Regarding securing a kill: you can pick ignite on aggressive supports like Tresh or Leona to help snowball lane. No one is forcing you to pick exhaust.

Your arguments are: I can build damage and deal damage, I can 1v1 supports, and I can do what JIV does in the jungle except worse since I'll have no items. Also, fuck my ADC since who wants to peel? Right, guys? What happens when the enemy team has Irelia? Are you going to stand back an be a shitty Leona? Are you going to buy Mikhael's to cleanse stuns?

Also, you aren't "freeing" lanes. Jarvan support, unless fed to hell and back, is a shittier version of Leona. You are giving your team a guy that instantly blows up when he goes in since Sighstone+Mobi Boots+Targon's just give health, which definitely isn't enough to compensate for zero resistances. Check out the tanky supports. What do they get? Oh, right. Armor, MR and/or damage resistance. Since most of a support's early gold is going to go into items that give HP.

Don't try to justify a "for fun" or selfish support pick as better than champions designed for supporting. They are an alternative but not better, since they are actually a waste in that spot and pretty terrible from behind.