Talk:Vayne/@comment-159.205.87.176-20120513122200/@comment-68.98.9.242-20120514030735

I agree that mechanically it has issues, as the counter to true dmg is building hp, but silver bolts are %, however I don't agree that they are overly imbalanced. I think they should be somewhat reworked but it's not really needed for the balance of vayne as a champion.

QUICK MATH, A TL:DR AFTER THESE TWO PARAGRAPHS

Also as a quick sidenote, versus a lvl 18 bruiser (we'll take riven as an example i suppose) with warmogs is dealt ~318dmg (assuming ~3232 hp which is riven's base hp + warmogs, ik there are masteries but it's not that much of a difference) from a silver bolt proc, which is ~106dmg per attack. An auto attack with bt/ie (here comes the math...feel free to correct any mistakes) 108 base ad + 180 from bt/ie + 21 from masteries (4xdeadliness, 3xbrute force) + 3 ad runes (what i run anyways) = 312 AD, assume ie/pd for crit chance = 55% crit chance for 260% dmg (lethalit + ie, stacks additively), 312 AD * 55% crit* 260% dmg? (For average hit i think?) = 446 base damage per auto attack.

Now for armor... assume that said riven has wriggles/atmas/9 armor seals/masteries gives ~164 armor. Runes/masteries (I personally run 20 armor pen on my generic ad rune page) knocks that down to ~122 armor, which reduces physical damage taken by 55%, 446*0.45=200.7 average damage per auto attack from vayne onto said riven.

TL:DR Versus our imaginary Riven w/ wriggles/atmas/warmogs+runes/masteries she takes ~200.7 damage per auto attack and ~106dmg from silver bolts. So versus our example bruiser Vayne deals 1/3 of her damage with silver bolts.

This does not include her ult, or tumble, or the % damage reduction masteries, or havoc, or any items which penetrate/reduce armor. But it should give an example of what Vayne does versus a bruiser.

Also note that versus a non bruiser her AA's aren't being reduced as much and they have less % of hp so silver bolts do less.

MORE QUICK MATH:

Versus another vayne with 1853hp (I don't use the hp mastery personally) bolts do ~69.4dmg per average auto attack, while her autos deal 288 per hit or something like that with the same above items and the enemy vayne running armor runes/masteries. so the silver bolts deal about 20% of her dmg in this scenario.

All of this is just assuming you have the above items, things change, sometimes you have a different build, some people have different runes. Take this as an example with a grain of salt. And remember that while Vayne does indeed hold what I believe is the highest endgame dps, other carries (for the most part) still have their own damage boosts whether it be % (Varus/Kog) Attack speed (Graves/Trist) or something else.

OVERALL TL:DR

Vayne silver bolts hurt, her auto attacks hurt more though as they do with any AD carry, other AD carries have damage steroids as well.

They probably should have just lowered the bolt % damage instead of nerfing your q when they nerfed her awhile back.

Going to save this for future reference...