Talk:Karma/@comment-26580454-20150807101047/@comment-25223119-20150809160041

Unfortunately, not that I expect any rework, I'm stuck with the current fanbase. Then again, the karma fanbase is small, it's easy to rally up those who do and don't support.

Comparing Lux's snare just because she has a secondary root is unfair. If people can avoid the first root, avoiding the second one isn't a big deal.

What you're trying to say here is that it's okay to have Karma own a skill with 1.5AP ratio worth of damage because its easily avoidable. But so is Lux's ult and Q. Comparing between the two, the possibility of missing skillshots are highly similar.

You're right, current Karma isn't about raw damage, but she lacks the raw turnaround that was envisioned in her rework. Her utility, while having great numbers, is nothing impressive. She has a generic utility that mages/support have, which is a snare, and the shield plus mini haste.

Even if she outruns an Udyr, my question to you is so what? I should have clarified sitting duck, by sitting duck, I meant that she is helpless, and cannot contribute damage if she wastes her very first R->Q. W gives a full 9 seconds of passive tick, but that is if you can pull off the full tick. Attacks give 1.5 but lets face it, her AA animation isn't the best. E's damage got dumped so she can longer contribute meaningfully in terms of damage. I

But really, the core damage of Karma have always been R->E pre and post rework. You see everyone talk about R->E being the preferred tool to get the most out a passive.

A number of us want the shield damage back because it is a unique identity of Karma. Even if Riot buffs up the value and haste again, it wouldn't matter.

The last point in which I'll never understand is why some of you pride about 3.5 seconds snare on W. It is an overkill and when someone learns how to put it to good use, people will complain because it is too strong. A mere two seconds is more than enough to set up. The 1.5 duration buff could have been used to increase Karma's radius on R->Q, in exchange for lowered damage and higher slow, so that getting the second part of R->Q is fundamental. And as everyone has spoken, R->Q is the worst skill for APC simply because people flash out or body blocked by minions.

Your advice to APC Karma players is to play via utility, but a number of us enjoy R->Q, so it's not fair to just say enjoy her utility just because it had been bumped.

And FYI, during reworked, her shield had nerfed values and ratio in exchange for aoe shielding. In return, this created problem because she couldn't have a shield too strong or weak. This left Riot with no choice but to remove damage for additional shield value, but lost its original purpose of retaining the turnaround power. I personally prefer Karma with her 280+80% AP singular shield. It encourages you to show skillcap and think, to use it on a tank or backline? And allows power to be moved elsewhere. Her old kit, as much as I want to avoid discussing so that people wouldn't get upset, had the necessary tools to play well. Even now, Karma's mantra skills are somewhat reliant on her teammate, W and E are set ups that require teammates to capitalize.

Old Karma had more interesting reactions with the kit because she has zero hard cc, but exchanges it for raw power and 3 efficient utilities. I think Riot needs to have a champion that is uniquely that. Not every support needs to have cc or range, and Karma would have encouraged very very diverse team comps, adding to Riot's concept of a diverse meta.

I'll be upfront about this, if Riot wants to give an overhaul, and even if not the kit. I personally will support Riot in changing her lore, VO and design. Considering how very little fans care about her background, I think this shouldn't upset everyone.

With regards to her current kit, Riot already feels she's not acceptable. I don't know what acceptable is for them, but for me its how much they've changed a champion and the ire Morello's team aroused among Karma fanbase. A greater concern was raised about her background design but the team closed the chapter before anyone influential could do a thing. Also, I want to put this up, Guinsoo who originally worked on her gave her small scale buffs, and subsequently made her too op and the team had no choice but to completely rework.

The things I knew was that Karma had one mantra charge, knocknack on Q, silence on W I believe. This alone gives me reason to believe Karma's kit was not problematic. She didn't have players who wanted to learn her devotedly.

I know this upsets a lot of people and I pretty much expect the next few replies to shit on me. And I don't blame you, but if you're going to talk nice things about Karma, you need to read on all threads talking about the controversy behind Karma. Even if you liked her kit and feel no reason to look at the old one, look at her lore and listen to her VO + league judgement. You will learn love her that much and what makes the fans so relatable to her.

Give it a try and you will see how much of a difference she is now. Just the lore and voice plus outfit, and reflect upon how if her character was kept, she would have presented a different archetype for riot narratives to write and brought a different kind of personality in league, where everything is overly manic or dark.

Read her old lore, give it a try. I place more emphasis on lores, the personality, VO and visual design.