Talk:Kayle/@comment-4829762-20121031003141/@comment-2124153-20121104234622

^ Sorry, you're still wrong, even after a tl;dr that brings up 20 different subjects that have nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion. Subjects which I will be largely ignoring.

Fact of the matter is, Swiftness costs 8 mastery points for 2% MS (since Kayle doesn't use the other points efficiently, that's the opportunity cost). It is not worth it under any reasonable circumstances: those same points in either Offense or Defense are going to give you a better result than a mere +6-10 to your MS. I've already made the argument for both.

Secondarily, Initiator is not for escaping: it's for map mobility, kiting, and initiation. Swiftness won't save you in a void, because it doesn't meaningfully change any chasing matchups (2% is not enough), so the escaping analogy falls flat.

Thirdly, don't lecture me on the value of defense top lane, if you don't even understand the usefulness of 11 down the defense tree (such as freezing minion waves for denial). And don't give me crap about "more options" when you don't even realize that you're limiting your options by refusing to take defense in the first place. Do you realize how many favorable trade opportunities that you give up on by refusing to fight enemy champions in a minion wave? You don't do it because you can't. But I can do it, because Armor and damage reduction means melees hit me for zero and casters tickle. This means more chances to put the hurt on an enemy lane, especially because of pathing issues when you're near minions.

tl;dr, get off your high horse. I gave advice for a specific scenario: Kayle top lane. You blew that up into bringing up 0 CS Kayle, alternative mages, jungling, etc all in an attempt to defend your bad 8 Utility decision. Give it up, and maybe learn something.