Talk:Zac/@comment-8506165-20141213034041/@comment-8506165-20150114083633

"The problem with increasing his damage is that makes him worse to fight against in lane. His harass is already quite decent, and on top of that he can HEAL for harassing. "

Keyword: "can". Riot specifically changed his chunk behaviour so it was much less of a given and people could actually contest the chunks. If that hasn't worked they need to look for another solution, particularly as that was the patch that killed Zac, but if it has worked then "but he heals in toplane!" isn't so much a factor any more. (4.20 also saw effective Zac nerfs in Spirit Visage and Warmog's changes, making his sustain even worse).

Also, I specifically mentioned increasing his W base %health damage because it's more effective against jungle creeps with high health and comparatively less effective against champions, especially as Zac has to walk up to them to do it and it's not just free harass from out of a melee's range. I'm looking to increase his teamfight capability and jungling power here, with as little toplane impact as possible. Although the sudden predominance of ranged toplaners may make toplane Zac a bit irrelevant currently.

"The point of scaling off of tank stats isn't meant to give them damage, it's mean to give them some scaling into lategame and to make them more than just a punching bag in teamfights."

I view that as a bit of a crutch for bad design unless you're wanting to do it specifically to weight someone's power into late game (cf: ). No-one's gonna accuse Maokai of being bad in teamfights, for instance - he just has a well-designed enough kit to not need it. It's why I'd prefer to avoid it on Zac: his current kit makes him poor as a pure tank, and (in my opinion) he should fill a kind of Mundo-Lite role, as a tanky sustain champ who deals a lot of AoE threat damage in teamfights - again, without needing damage scaling off tank stats. I don't want him to be as good at it as Mundo, obviously, given that he does also have an initiate and some CC, and I think giving him options as to whether he builds for damage or for more survivability is also good. But I don't like where he is at the moment as a kind of inferior Amumu either. A kind of happy middle ground.

"I think a nice buff to E would be the more it's upgraded the faster it charges, allowing for super quick getaways and initiations."

That'd be cool, actually. I always hated how I could totally get away with E but in the time I need to charge it to get over the wall they can hit me with 3 different kinds of CC. I suppose the only reason not to do it would be if Riot thought it'd make him too inescapable (you Flash, he immediately flies 500 units ahead of you...) or safe (only Lee Sin's allowed to get out of every bad situation by hopping a wall).

"Zac's passive is lazy"

The revive, or the chunk mechanic? I think the chunk mechanic is cool, they just didn't really think about it very much and made high-sustain part of his identity because of it, then butchered its reliability. The revive is definitely lame though.