Thread:Willbachbakal/@comment-26815373-20161225053323/@comment-26815373-20170202031202

Here we go again:

I do plan on talking about the environment players occupy in (both Summoner's Rift and the vision and stealth systems we're given to work with) and I've got a number of good quotes lined up from prominent game designers of stealth games that address issues of SS Clarity when it comes to making stealth games. Basically, to support stealth gameplay player's need good feedback about the state of the AI and the world. Things like "Can I be seen?" and "Am I being heard?" are very important questions, and a lot of stealth games make this information ambigious or 'opaque' leaving the player to expirement with trail-and-error as the parse out the games systems. (I'm paraphrasing a lot of this from Nels Anderson, Lead Designer of Mark of the Ninja, an amazing game.)

I think having real players instead of AI NPCs does make reworking the vision / stealth game a bit more challenging, but all the pieces are already there. You mention how League has brush which enables stealthy gameplay, whereas DotA doesn't. However, DotA2 has trees (not brush) that block line-of-sight the same way terrain in League does, letting players hide amongst them which functionally turns them invisible (can't be seen on screen or the mini-map, and hence can't be targeted). DotA2 also has elevation, letting those on higher ground see farther while those on lower ground can't see them.

I'd be more hesitant to see brush growing around the map, but maybe a plant variation would be fun. I also wouldn't mind seeing some of the thicker pieces of terrain have 'secret' nooks that champions can hide in, but I don't see RIot doing that any time soon. I really look forward to day when a game incorporates all of these various elements for the ultimate isometric stealth game. Maybe League of Legends 2?

The key to highlighting stealth gameplay is, IMO, the vision options Riot gives us. They've got to rethink wards, and taking another look at trinkets wouldn't hurt either. For example, using walls (terrain) as cover that conceals our movements is much more practical when player's can't drop a ward across it at instant speed. Likewise, if wards had some innate means of being avoided (such as all being visible, as you suggest in your Another Look At Vision) then players would likely avoid them, engaging in stealth gameplay whether or not they realized that's what they're doing. Again, highlighting that stealth gameplay is apart of their game, and that the stealth mindset is what seperates pros from casuals.

Also, giving us more ways of earning / gaining information is super important. Things like Sweeping Lens and Scrying Orb (not their upgrades) are great because of their extreme range, letting players scope out the situation. You know I want to see more detection abilities like 's Tremor Sense and 's Blood Hunt. Also, 's Sentinels are a great example of getting vision while simultaneously allowing stealth gameplay. In my idea world, each team would be able to set up a 'network' of vision that demands stealthy movement and skilled timing / positioning from enemies trying to gank successfully, while not being so much or so powerful that it makes ganking impossible.

I'm just rambling at this point - still have lots of work to do.