Talk:Elise/@comment-178.166.24.118-20130324194912/@comment-178.166.24.118-20130327132346

@76.246.56.208 You're obviously not ranked very high. Yorick does not beat Elise, if anything the lane gets stalled by both of them until one of the junglers steps up. She doesn't rely on early game kills, quite the contrary. She just keeps scaling every time champions level up and/or purchase tanky items because HP related damage is much more of an issue at mid and late game rather than early. She's not hard to master at all, Elise is quite a binary champion. Only her Spider form E allows for more dynamic play, otherwise she doesn't take much to learn. And one does not simply bully Elise. With any champion. Period. You either all-in her and get away with it or you die a slow and painful death. The 'bullying' era ended in S2, where people started Boots + 3/4 pots everytime and the first to recall or get ganked before 5 minutes loses the lane. But now it's a matter of who will burn through the 9 pots faster and when you face Elise you will burn them very fast. And no, she doesn't have a hard time early because her spider form combined with spiderlings outdamage anything early game except a lvl 2 cheese Riven. And I learned how to deal with her, 'truat me'. It starts in champ select and it's called banning, until Riot fixes her. But sure, what could possibly be wrong with a champion that holds a 70% ban rate on solo queue and an extremely high pick-or-ban rate in LCS.

@Raknut No, he doesn't. Do you know what 'destroying' means? It's taking on a lane and treat the enemy champion like a purple caster minion at all stages. Like a classic Talon vs Kass lane. That's destroying. But Renekton does not destroy Elise. He lives through the lane by getting early Doran's and Spirit Visage but he does not have the upper hand per se. He just constantly pushes the lane with Q and E and keeps Elise under tower, but she actually has no trouble cs'ing under it. I've been on both sides of this match-up and it can swing in Elise's favour very hard and very easily.

@Hexmage It's not that simple. MPen boots and Haunting Guise are relatively cheap and they give Elise a flat 30 MPen. Combine it with another flat 10 MPen from runes (9 Marks and 1 Quint) and 8% from Masteries and that's roughly a 50 MPen that she'll ignore if you have 100 MR (which is at least a Hexdrinker, a Negatron and base MR + Masteries). Not to mention she can still build items like Abyssal or Void Staff. And the more you itemize for MR the less of a threat you'll be to Elise by not doing any damage. Her design is very tricky but I don't think Riot was expecting the HP meta to rise anyway.