Talk:Warwick/@comment-11138826-20130824182939/@comment-7760473-20130907035126

@AwknGDisturbing

If this game was all about 1vs1 fights probably you would be right, but this is a team based game, so to stop the counter jungling from Nunu you just need to place a couple of wards where necessary and ask help to your team to gank him when he invades. For example if both top and mid come to help, a kill and 2 assists would give a good amount of money to your team, making up for the money lost in jungle. Honestly there are other counter junglers I fear more, like Shaco, he can shoot you down first levels pretty easy and it's harder to catch even with help, but I think it's ok this way, if a character has no weaks everybody will pick him all time and end of the fun.

@DingyuChowMein

Why don't you try the build I suggested and check if it works or not instead of just yelling around? As I said it suffers from the rework on Phage, but it's still valid and cheap, which I think it's the most important feature for a jungler build. I use 9/21 masteries and magic pen, armor and magic resist per level runes. Per level runes make your first clear slower, but you will be a lot stronger end game. Honestly I don't like those junglers which fall down badly after level 12-13 like Maokai, Nunu or Nautilus when people build them without any offensive item. Once, spectating a ranked, I saw a full tank Nocturne and trust me, it was pretty embarassing :D That is just my idea about jungler, other people just like to improve their first 6-7 minutes of game on an average 45-50 minutes match, just tastes.

About quintessences you are free, I saw a lot of people like movement speed on junglers, honestly I take 2 hp per level quints so I can hit with right masteries 3.2k hp with only Frozen Mallet as health item, it's enough if you build high resistances items and with WW's sustain. To say this in another way, I like to improve my stats instead of aiming for bonuses which increase my jungling speed because, nine times on ten, I'm the first one to start a teamfight so I like to survive enough to be usefull and Warwick is good enough inside jungle anyway without any specific bonus from runes, just taking what masteries give for junglers.

@InsaneX5

BotRK it's not a bad item at all, it's just too expensive when you have a cheaper alternative like Wit's End which boosts all your skills, make you more tanky and don't slow your Frozen Mallet by 800 gold. With old Phage maybe it would work, but now you can't do it anymore, you need your Frozen Mallet as soon as possible. Furthermore I don't think you can rely only on BotRK active, first because you need to close it, Bilgewater's Cutlass active it's just weak, and in jungle it's not easy to gain all those money. On other junglers like Xin Zhao or Volibear it works better because they have more spammable gap closers and a slow, and I think they make a better use of recipe items. When you finally close it, you have just an active which last 3 seconds, if you take a cc while it is active probably you/your team lost a chance for a kill, and the FM is even farther, instead if you close FM faster, when you stick to someone, there is no way he can run away. So I'm sorry but I still think Wit's End is better for several reasons (damage, price, integration with skill set).

About Wriggle's Lantern, it's true it's not the old one which was used to cost 1600 gold and give 18% life steal, but you can't say it is bad now. About jungling speed WW becomes fast enough just after Madred's Razor, basically the first time you go back.

I'm not sure what you mean talking about the build costing 11800 gold (and I remember plus a free slot to fill, so end game they become 14000 gold if you buy a Thorn Mail for example). You said Warwick needs damage, health, tankyness, cdr and mana, how I build him I get all of those things, it's true you don't get all money from the start, but I'm sure we agree on the fact that as jungler you have to aim at the cheapest build possible, it makes no sense to go for a build which costs 16k gold when you will never see all of those money as jungler, so what the problem? And I want to add that as I said, you can change order in base how things are going. For example if the carry bot is dominating build a Chain Vest. Emh I don't want to appear repetitive, but if you build BotRK, those 720 gold more makes your FM even harder to get :D

What I'm trying to say is that Warwick is still incredibly strong, really strong, he doesn't need nothing more than the right build, which has to be cheap and effective. I tried him in any single way and as jungler builded as I said he still wrecks faces so well. When I said if you fail with him it means you are bad, it was related to all those people crying about him for any good reason at all. Furthermore I want to say there are many way to fail. If you play well, your score is not shit, you spend all your time ganking, helping where is necessary, cooperating with your team and not being a pussy to save your score, but you lose the match anyway because all three lanes are lost thanks that trolling matchmaking, it's not your fault and not your fail.

Last thing, if Riot lowers his damage to give him a kind of cc, he will become really useless because he has yet no explosive damage like a Xin Zhao (ewq ftw) or other junglers, I'm sure his sustain and tankiness will be nerfed as well, so why play him anymore? There are yet junglers which make a lot of damage and others which have a lot of cc, he is nice as he is, in the middle of those 2 categories with right build, so why changes this? Why make him as all others? If you don't like, as I said just play another champion, it's easy.