Talk:Vi/@comment-26433263-20150803234855/@comment-24496127-20150817132906

@Sepums

Most discussions abour league champion balance ,especially pertaining to particular abilities, are almost doomed to just repeat. It mostly comes down to the situation you want to look at it in.


 * An exxagerated example of what these debates seem to come down to*

"Bro, Vi's ultimate is totally weak when she uses it to dive into five people. Alone. That are in the enemy fountain"

"Lol idiot, it's completely op when she ults the carry while a Yasuo is around, a Caitlyn is locking her ult onto them, Karthus is ulting, and god himself smites the enemy to aid Vi in her righteous quest to ruin a carries day. No counterplay to Vi."

"Pfft. Noob. She dies instantly in enemy fountain.."

"No, She instakills with no counterplay"

And on and on and on....

I personally dislike her ultimate being so easy to hit a carry with while having no real way for them to react to it. But that's currently what you pick Vi for. Even if I believe it's bad design, there's people that don't, so where does that leave us in a discussion? Endless back and fourth where the same ability is argued about being toxic or not toxic while entirely different situations are being discussed. Or hell, sometimes what one person thinks is toxic another doesn't. Who's to say who's right? Maybe people want uncounterable ultimates in the game, and don't think it's bad for the game.

The most you can do is explain what you believe and why, and let others take it or leave it. Trying to force an opinion on others doesn't work if it's completely against what they think, and from experience, with both how I've acted and other people, results in them, or yourself even, looking for any small detail or situation that validates their view, not so much to convince the other, or at least explain their view, but to prove that they're right, and the other person is wrong. I believe that's where the endless repition comes from.

We all have differing viewpoints that are ingrained into our minds as being the right one. I'll never say Vi's ultimate has sufficient counterplay, or is good design, but if someone thinks that it is, what more can be done unless they or I am willing to change our views in the first place, hence why it's better to explain your dislike, rather than "objective" reasons for why you're right.

Kind of dragged on there, sorry.

@clyrah

I at no point said anything about her 100-0'ing people from any range. Just that she gets to you from any range. Whether this is a good or bad thing for Vi can vary...although I tend to lean towards it being a good thing in most cases, since it can easily can force them to reposition, or just outright get them killed. My problem is that she always gets to you. Nothing more. And that only is not really bad for the game. But it's certainly can be anti-fun very often.