Talk:Veigar/@comment-25903301-20151004131604/@comment-25532677-20151005210733

I get 40% CDR on Veigar. 20% from runes & masteries and 20% from Athenes. I have to argue against your viewpoint on athenes. Veigar benefits from all the stats it gives immensely and I tend to buy it first, even versus AD matchups. The 60 AP compared to the 80 from morello and 100 from NLR items is quite negligible when you take into consideration that Veigar will have roughly 200-300 bonus AP from his passive alone by 30 mins. The 20% CDR allows veigar to play more aggressively, using his abilities to powerfarm his Q, Zone with his E, and allows for his Ult to be on a 48 Second cooldown with 40% CDR. I do not consider it to have wasted mana, since you will be using abilities more often, meaning higher MP5 is crucial. Though it may not offer a lot of MR, it shouldn't be neglected since it helps ease the pressure of long-range mage opponents.

I have considered building Twin Shadows on him, but have never done it. It offers him some utility slow wich can help chase or escape from targets which is invaluable on an immobile mage like Veigar.

You are correct that Veigar can still run out of mana with an Athenes, which is why managing Mana consumption is important. Though, mana becomes less of a problem for veigar the more the game goes on since athenes refunds mana if you kill a target; something that Veigar becomes really good at the longer a game goes on.

Veigar does not need to be nerfed for something he's done all his life. He's simply Flavor Of the Month right now, and nerfing will do nothing but put him back off the grid and become a sleeper champion he has always been for the select few that are experienced with him.