Talk:Riven/@comment-4977390-20130225202841/@comment-2124153-20130226181524

when they focus you.

I don't know what kind of scrubs you play with, but if you're first into a fight as Riven (i.e. the primary focus target), you or your team are doing something horribly wrong. Riven is not the tip of the spear, she's follow-up and clean-up. As I said earlier in this thread, if you want to play like that, you're better off with someone like Irelia or Garen, who are DESIGNED to go in first and soak attention. Both have innate CC reduction, sticking power, and threat without damage items.

Your line about "CDR is pointless" is a complete non sequitur. CDR is pointless because Morgana can bind you for her team to blow you up? On what planet are these things even related to each other? CDR is there to make QWE available more often, end of story. CDR isn't even necessarily mutually exclusive with defenses: I have a 9/21/0 mastery page specifically to deal with CC-heavy teams where not even Merc's is enough. I still have ~29% CDR in the final build.

''Just because you don't have Garen's W doesn't means you don't get as many free stats as him. I play both, and although I'm still a newbie at Garen, I actually see how Riven gets even more free stats. Not to mention that one defensive item+one offensive-defensive item is not anything near how Garen builds.''

Riven gets zero free defensive stats. Garen gets 20% bonus Armor/MR, plus percentage damage reduction right off the top, plus tenacity, plus a free slow removal. Add that to the fact that his ultimate scales with health-stackers, and you have a tanky badass that's rewarded for going hybrid offensive/defensive, because he doesn't have to itemize for tenacity and Armor/MR/health is worth more on him than it is someone with no defensive steroids.

You don't build like Garen, but you play like Garen, so why not just play Garen? Skip the middle man. Two defensive items is overkill on Riven.

''Hey, do you see anyother item that gives both armor+AD? Because Wriggle's is awful in lategame. When Riot realizes this and they make a new armor+AD item I'll say "F*ck, 'm going to throw you into oblivion, Atma's". But for now, if you need armor+AD, you have to bend and get the damn crit chance.''

Yeah, it's called B.F. Sword and a Chain Vest. Welcome to Season 3, where piecemeal builds are actually viable, because the gigantic premium on Legendary items has been removed. It gives more AD (up to 3000 health) and 5 less Armor than Atma's, for the same money, and you have multiple upgrade paths for either item later on (2x Cloth if you want Randuin's instead). The crit on Atma's is already useless on Riven, so you don't miss it.

You barely need more than one combo to finish squishies.

You ignored my point, which had nothing to do with killing people. I'll make it again: Riven CANNOT PEEL WITHOUT CDR. She has two abilities to peel: Ki Burst, and the third hit of Broken Wings. There is nothing else in her kit that will allow her to get someone off of her carry's face, so unless you want to buy a Mallet, you'd better start stacking CDR, otherwise you are useless for ~6-10s while the other team goes ape on your ADC.

I don't see how you can claim that being tanky lets you "peel effectively", unless you don't understand what "peel" means.

''I'm not going to deny that AD is her main source, hell, I would be a noob if I denied that. But CDR is useless...''

Calling CDR useless makes you nearly as bad as the noob who denies the power of AD. What kind of goddamn shitshows are your teamfights that you see no utility in having a second AOE stun 4.2s after the first? Does everyone build six damage items and blow up instantly, so fights last a fraction of a second?

Because where I hang my hat, people build defensive items on damage dealers (usually Mog's), the supports and junglers build Bulwark and Locket, and protecting my carry's positioning with stuns and knockbacks is very nearly as important as jumping on their MVP and blowing him/her up. I'm also going to get 2-3 Valors in a battle, because fights actually last that long, and that's a ton of extra health.