Talk:Maokai/@comment-89.164.179.203-20120829191936/@comment-96.23.114.187-20120830075610

^ this guy's doesn't know the first thing about alistar or maokai.

1) Ganking start time .. first of all, most ali start at red for the slow. And wtf is that ? Ganking start time ? They can gank anytime they want. Ali only as 2 offensive spell so of course he choose to gank at lvl2, not much reason to wait if you have an opportunity. Mao start at 3 or 4 because he jungle with is E and is CC are on is Q and W, so he want to both before starting to gank. Most of the time he goes E,Q,E,W and gank at lvl4 but if you see and oppotunity go E,Q,W and gank at lvl3

2) Ganks themselves - Ali's is terrifying at low level game. If you're agaisnt a wall he's going to lock you for 4 sec. If he's behind you, he's going to punish you HARD for it. Once he reach lvl 6 he stop giving a crap about your turret, so you have nowhere to hide. But when you ward and stay viligant he can't behind you. Ali doesnt bring any real dmg and if he screw is WQ he just saved you. Mao however is more reliable. You can't flash away from is W, so he can WQ for the snare and slow and if you escape he might pick the kill with is E considering the huge range on it. You can also EW to make sure the seed hit the champ.

3) Clearing speed, Alistar speed is average and doesnt get much faster over time. He also need is stun to farm, so he's vulnerable to counter-jungle. Mao's a bit faster and get alot faster over time. Mao never use is W to farm (he lose agro) and is Q as a wery low CD

4) Utility - Mao wins, he can scout with is E, keep interrupting qith is Q, is W allow him to place himslef in fights and is ult save lifes. Ali WQ and tank turret.

5) Late game: Mao win because late game is about teamfights and Mao got one of the best ult for teamfight. Also Mao's passive is pretty much up all the time in a 5v5. Alistar is great for tanking turret but that's it, he WQ in a fight then he run ahead of is team hoping the be targeted because he as nothing else to do until is cd refresh.

TL; DR; Both ganks-oriented junglers, but ali's very dependant on gank and easy to counter-jungle while Mao can pretty much do anything ali does with more utility and being alot less vunerable to counter-jungle.