Board Thread:Wiki discussions and announcements/@comment-1876049-20150731182500/@comment-1920550-20150809175351

JasonWildBlade wrote: I'm not really seeing much sense in the points you're making. You repeat that Cho is slow and cumbersome, but you don't really mention anything other than that he has relatively high movement speed and he's dangerous if he catches up with you. He has no mobility abilities, but that doesn't mean every champion without mobility abilities is slow and cumbersome - would Zyra be described that way?

Graves outranges 5 marksmen, not 2. The fact that you think it's stupid to count Kog'Maw's range as what it actually is is your opinion. He's also on par with 2 others, or 3 if you count Azir (which is up to you - he essentially is just an AP version of a marksman, and that is his secondary role). The next 8 marksmen who outrange him do so only by 25 units, the difference is barely noticeable until you get to Varus, Ashe, Caitlyn, and Tristana at later levels.

You may be right that people don't play Lee for his ability to reveal stealthed champions (11 can stealth, double the number you said), but it's possibly the only thing he can do better than anyone else. If a newer player wanted to play a champion with good mobility, then these bios should point out the mobility of the champions with the most of it, not champions like Lee Sin who only have two targeted dashes, one of which requires a skillshot to be landed first and the other is only a dash when used on a different ally. I'd say even Katarina has more mobility with an extremely low-cooldown and resetting decent movement speed boost and a fairly low cooldown targeted blink which can also reset. I'll just say this again - if a champion's noted strength is something that so many other champions are better at, why is the the noted strength? Why not the thing that they are the best at out of every other champion in the game?

Yet again you say Twitch has no escapes. Aside from the longest-duration invisibility in the game which also provides a movement speed boost which can be activated in 1.5 seconds, or in other words is basically uninterruptable as long as Twitch has an ounce of foresight? May I also note that on one occasion I was told that squishy champions are squishy, even if they are less squishy than other squishies, and that's why it is mentioned. Yet now I'm being told that squishiness is not being mentioned because every other champion of the same role is squishy as well.

Essentially, I'm being told that a squishy who isn't very squishy is still mentioned as squishy because their group is squishy, but a squishy who is as squishy as the other members of their group is not being mentioned as squishy because everyone else is squishy too. You can't tell me one thing in response to something I said, then tell me something that disagrees with your first reply in response to something else I say. If a champion can be blown up by a full assassin/mage combo, they are squishies by nature or are squishy because their deffensive steroids/items still aren't online.

And a 1.5 second arm on anything is piss poor to use in most situations especially escape situations when you are always certain to atleast take an instance of damage thus pushing the arm time to a full 6 seconds. Using it on trades is suicide, teamfights aswell. Escapes are escapes regardless of the situation. Champions like Lucian, Graves, Kassadin, Leblanc even Kennen can instantly evade or reposition on the drop. You mention foresight...no matter how much you ward, or evade skillshots or anything, you will in a game get caught in a flank or eat a hook/bind and as Twitch you have no way of escaping that unlike any of the champions above mentioned. Twitch's lack of instant escapes, lack of innate peel and his reliance on longer trades and skirmishes alongside his squishy base stats makes him more vulnerable to burst/all ins, thus making him a particullarly fragile target. In that paradign, he's very similar to Kog'Maw.

You considering Katarina more mobile than Lee is...simply absurd. Kata doesn't half of Lee's chase or evasion potential or ability to enter the middle of the enemy team and engage on a priority target. And just because you have champions that excel at the same function over others doesn't take away from what their core strength is, it simply means they are outclassed in it. Viktor outclassing Anivia as a control mage, doesn't take away the fact that Anivia is a control mage and that is what she brings as her major strength.

Cho is a melee tank and you're comparing him to a CC long range mage? Really? High base MS means jack when you're a melee champion with mostly telegraphed spells with long cast times and your major burst has to be dealt at melee range aswell. Compare that to a Nautilus/Maokai/Sion/Sejuani/Skarner/Rek'Sai, they can close the gap on you ''in some way. ''You ask the parameters of considering Cho "slow and cumbersome"? Melee range, no gapclosers, no movement steroids, long cast time spells and melee range ultimate.

You mentioned Graves AA range? And you're point...is? Would you say that Vayne isn't a short range ADC despite having a base 550 AA range? You look at things as separate elements, while these descriptions are looking at the whole of a champion's playstyle.