Talk:Vi/@comment-26433263-20150803234855/@comment-9705522-20150804124420

Well, this is wrong, but let me explain why. First, the ults that you claim could be more game changing and deal more damage. That is true for exactly ... none of them. Malphites ult does less damage, and is almost always less effective (except if all enemies are clumped up so its a 5 man-one). Whats more, it can be dodged.

Sejuanis is a bit different. It has the potential to be better (although not damage wise). But, it can be dodged. Also, its only a stun, so QSS and Mikaels and Cleanse all deal with it (with Mikaels being fairly common). So not only is it possible for the MVP to avoid this ability, they can also break out of it.

Amumu is probably the worst of the bunch. He needs another ability (Q) to get in range, which often means that since he lands in front of his Q target, he will have a bit of a range disadvantage. Additionally, the ability doesnt even stuns, since spells still can be cast. And as before, Mikaels, QSS and cleanse work. So, its like Sejuanis ult, only worse.

Also, there is 1 crucial things that these champions (and their ults) lack that Vi has. 1, followup. These champions can use their ult, and then .... nothing. They need to walk in range first. Vi lands comfortably behind her target, allowing direct followup (which is also the big thing that makes Nauts ult fine, and Vis not. That and the range thing).

Next, her ult not dealing a lot of damage. Thats true, the ult itself deals medium damage. But the whole kit of Vi allows her to burst her target (an ADC with Randuins) to 30% or less HP, using only 2 offensive items, and the remaining items being defensive, leaving her as a 4k hp 200 armor 200 magic resist juggernaut. And all of that, before the target can even move again. So, her ult wont do a lot of damage, Vi will. In fact, whats worse, is that her Q will be up soon after this burst, allowing her to finish off her target.

Thats not true, and even if it were, its not counterplay. But first, the not true part. She is right behind your team, on her target (the MVP), with your team being disabled and/or split, with her team having the chance to charge in. This is not a bad position. This is a perfect position for a bruiser. As for tanky Vi not dealing a lot of damage, thats wrong. BotrK, high base damage and good scalings, allowing you to deal a lot of damage with only 2 offensive items. And its not counterplay, because you are still, as her target, either going to die, or be forced to flee the fight.

Well, lets just say this. Vi is the sole reason I stopped playing ADC (in particular MF, who was my favourite champion at that point). Simply because I hated playing against her, and essentially not existing late game, no matter what I did. None of the champions you mentioned came even close to having that effect.

And as for "does the ultimate have to be counterable", the answer is yes, of course. It HAS to be counterable. Its the basic design principle.