Talk:Shaco/@comment-27355169-20151206172038/@comment-25368309-20151212184238

Well, firstl of all g'day to yet another Shaco Main on the wikia! =D  I am a little late with giving feedback and opinion about this but better late than never.

Passive: An interesting idea, his passive needs some kind of active gameplay component to be honest. This allows him to clear focus an enemy champion or just boost Shacos map presence over all. Since you did not mention if the stacks are lost on death (which they should be) I'll just guess that this is the case.

Q: The interaction with his new passive, which is pretty creative to be honest, would overall cause a nerf to the base stealth time of his Q, not the other way around. Even 5 seconds on normal without the passive would be the end of peaceful laning phases all around as you could gank from anywhere. As your passive deals less burst damage overall the crit does need no work, so you got that right. The reset on Q, which is needed but would be incredibly hard to balance, can't be given to him right away just that he can teamfight better, as he would get a huge early and mid game buff to his disengaging which is already ridiculous. I already talked about this at numerous points, there has to be a more difficult and non-reliable mechanic behind his reset. Together with the stealth time you would most likely just walk around stealthed for half of the game, which can be problematic when it comes to warding. I don't know how hard it is to use his passive but I don't think that a stacked up stealth time would be problematic instantly (maybe in late game, but idk). The box during stealth could boost his mind games nad that's never really bad.

W: So this is a bit confusing. JitB will never CC for 2.5 seconds on all ranks without a delay (that would be fiddlesticks then :^) ), together with casting this three times in a row every encounter with an enemy would mean a total of 7.5 seconds of cc in total. You already said it, he's an assassin (and a mage-assassin), so you can't cc lock the entire enemy team in an even bigger area. To the taunt mechanic, as the passive of his current E is a permaslow on basic attacks, the fleeing mechanic helps enemies to even make a little bit of distance. There really is not a big difference between fear and taunt (there is no big difference between hard CC in general), but you do have to keep in mind: This is a jack in the box, right? And it...spooks people, just like the original non-murderous toy does surprise little children. A taunt really does not fit the jack in the box thematicly (even though that is basicly the RL-reaction to yet another jack in the box :^) "GOD DAMNIT WHERE ARE ALL THESE BOXES COMING FROM???") ).

E: Erm, first of all, what's up with the ratios?? You did not mention this turning into a skillshot, you...you do know that ratios do not work like that...?? Just because there are other champions which have higher ratios than this it doesn't mean that he should one shot everything with this. A bit of clarification: There is an 800% AD scaling on Illaoi because setting up 5 tentacles and hitting anyone with them at least a single time is one of the most unreliable things to be done in the game, together with her identity as 'the chamion that just deals damage'  (even though she is a tank who is supposed to cc, but that is a designing issue of Illaoi...) there really is no reason to not oneshot everyone who is stupid enough to not disengage out of her Hentai-zone. A mf ult is channeled and an ultimate, and as the champion does not excel at anything else but late game combos that's fine as well. A Morde has to hit someone three times in a row with his low movement and attack speed plus not having any mobility in his kit. Shaco E is a targeted, high velocity projectile without a big casting time or cooldown together with no draw back to Shaco and his team, and he can mindlessly hit this with Q. His E is the only reliable spell damage in his kit, if you want to see these ratios on Shaco you sould work out a really in-Depth multiple components mechanic to the ability which is currently pretty boring to use.

The aspect of the poison I like, however. I never understood why he had no DoT in his kit as he utilizes Posion as one of his weapons (and would fit him well since most annoying-ass champions have damage over time :^) ). The double posion damage together with the passive stacks which might not be lost upon death could lead to some serious snowballing though, and people hate Shaco for that enough already, so look over that again.

R: Permanent Clones seem like a fun concept for Shaco only, but I doubt it would be useable for anyone who has not played him more than 200 times. The multiple clones remind of of a certain hero from yet another moba (I mean, their names even sound a bit similar :D ) but I think it could be pretty hilarious to use. There could be some funny interactions with that I'm sure and, as we all know, menacing laughter both in-game and in RL is one key part of Shacos Design... >:^]

And now for the stuff like the introduction and the last paragraph: You said that he is an Assassin, so he has to be strong, and that is flat out wrong, sorry for beeing so harsh. Shacos flavor (especialy his gameplay experience) is that you are NOT just facerolling over the enemy team like a Katarina for instance. You do not just spam your abilities like a LeBlanc or a Zed. Everyone knows that Shaco, on his own, is probably of lesser worth than any other champion on average. We all have seen the bad f2p-Shaco who lost your game and, heck, even a perfect Shaco utilizing every trick in the book which he practiced multiple years of playing might lose to a Vayne with 150 ping who just found her right mouse button. That is what makes him fun in my opinion, you are playing a champ to work against squishies but at the same time you could also play Rengar or even Low fcking Sin... but you don't! Because you rather win your games with funny mental outplays and not with the big numbers. That is what makes the champion iconic. Most other Assassins get auto-mechanicle after 10 games, some just require a keyboard. The worst thing that could happen with the rework is people casually picking Shaco over other early game dominant Champions like Lee or Vi because he has a clear advantage over them. I'd might as well quit the game at that point.

Regardless of all the problematic treatment in this I do say that this sounds like a lot of fun and would "modernize" his kit up to the current standart of champions. Some ideas are really interesting and I might as well think about them a bit. It's always nice to see people dealing with this champions problems and it is even nicer seeing more Shaco Mains around here ^^

Demon Shaco sounds epic. Maybe the skin should even have a new voice over, I'd pay every price for a new Shaco voice from Adam. I always thought about Secret Agent Shaco, with a butterfly knife and gramophones as boxes which play parts of "Lulu's and Shaco's quirky encounter" while active. I would apretiate a bit more reference to the Spy from TF2.