Talk:Lee Sin/@comment-8506165-20140118220449/@comment-9705522-20140119215705

since the usual talon combo is actually e q w and then ult (since using w early slows you down and makes it possible for them to escape before you get your autoattacks off), yes, his passive doesnt matter. a 1 second silence doesnt shut anyone down. then the whole "talons burst executes faster" err, no. lee has 3 spells he has to use, autoattacks and hydra. talon has 4 spells, 2 autoattacks, and hydra. on top of that, talons animations are longer. and he has a significant delay on his ult reactivation. so yes, lee is faster. and yes, i am aware talons hydra is also amplified. but in the end, the numbers i used for talon were already amplified. and with everything considered, including his passive and e, and so on, he had a burst of only 300 more. but the thing is its slower and less consistent. and easier to avoid. and this max burst damage is damage you will rarely if never get. so yes, assasin lee deals about as much damage as other assasins. "steroids make or break tanks" really? i mean, who is popular right now. shyvana. has barely anything. i mean, yeah, she has her ult that gives her double passive defensive stats, but those arent the world. mundo doesnt really have any defensive steroids, warwick has none, renekton only in his ult. yeah. also, randuins or frozen heart having the same effect? really? first off, nobody except maybe cho buys frozen heart anymore. as for randuins, yes, it has an attack speed slow. 15%, which is a quarter of lees. and to apply that you need ... to be attacked by that person. yeah. not even remotely close to being as good. "really few outside of adc" well, kayle mid. shyvana trundle and warwick top. elise jungle. quite a few of the popular ones. "kick is situational and means bla bla bla" yeah, no. remember, it has a total range of something like 1600, so yeah. and it doesnt meant that you die. remember, you are building tank, you can survive long enough for your team to finish off the squishy and get to you. yes, naut gets to slow from further away. 600. with delay and travel time. unless they had no ward, are extremly slow, and have a bad reaction time, it wont happen. "lee does need to hit q" nope. jump with w to a minion, press e, autoattack, maybe hit q if you need to. hit q on a minion instead of the main target. press e. he does outduel xin. hell, even stonewall acknowledged that in his jungle tier list by giving xin only a rank while lee s rank. level 3 double buff xin. quite a bit of damage. except lees is higher. i mean, what does xin have at lvl 3. 45 + 0.6 per ad bonus damage, 70 magic damage and a 40% attack speed slow. and a weak heal. what does lee have at lvl 3? well, since lee wont skill w at lvl 3 prolly, 160 + 1.8 per bonus ad damage ,and 8% missing hp, and 60 +1.0 per bonus ad magic damage, a 40% attack speed buff on himself and a 20% attack speed slow on others. well, looking at these numbers, its clear that lee wins. a lot more damage, a way of reducing xins damage, and just all around better stuff. i cant say this from personal experience, since i play neither, hating them both guts, but my friend does play them occasionally in diamond, and he also says xin gets outduelled by lee. mundo? yeah, deals a good amount of damage. but thats what he is for. he isnt a tank as much as a hypercarry. elise doesnt outdamage lee. darius, arguable. however, he wont apply a lot of his damage, being an immobile melee. maokai? he doesnt deal as much damage. not even in burst, and his cooldowns are higher, plus he doesnt deal damage with autoattacks. really, cherrypicking doesnt work as well when you do it wrong. "no one will say xin has good cc" err, yeah? i mean, really, everyone says xin has great cc. vi is a bit different. however, her ult is also problematic. i could go into detail, but im too lazy.