Talk:The Black Cleaver/@comment-4659726-20121212195745/@comment-4659726-20121213040407

I agree that they should have some viability, though I'd prefer top over mid since pushing AP mids in favor of such champs seems a bit unfair when top lane is a pretty open slot for many diff types of champs. Mid is the one place where Ap champs usually go and having them gone would just make me a bit sad since they served a nice "mage" niche for damage and utility.

Its just that black cleaver stacking is just so silly at the moment and even attempts at mitigating the damage you take through building health are largely not useful. I was a mundo with sunfire, warmogs, and spirit visage. And not even my massive amount of hp or ult could make me survive something like cleaver stacking.

I stick with what I said above as the proper way to balance it since not all AD casters are built glass cannon like talon and thus use the hp. Less benefit, loss of a lot of stats for stacking (as in you don't get faster stacking for building more yourself.), less CDR since CDR is already really good, and unique armor pen to balance out the whole "If you build armor you lose a lot of effectiveness, if you build health you still take true damage".

Obviously other sources of flat armor pen should be unique as well, like on Ghostblade. There is simply no reason magic pen is unique on every item when armor pen isn't. Even Cleaver's design is just pushing it a bit since it is a team wide buff rather than a self buff. A self buff would be more balanced and not benefit the biggest source of damage that is physical on the team, the AD carry. Who already gets multiplicative results from damage due to crits.