Talk:Karma/@comment-25223119-20150512123433/@comment-25223119-20150513184217

Actually, to be fair, Karma was a utility + burst mage, pre and post rework. The poking identity only came in at her new rework but otherwise, Karma used to be a good AP Carry who demanded good control of the situation and relied on utilities to extend her survivability. She's probably not an Ahri/Malzahar killing focused kind of mage, but she was definitely on par with someone like Ryze and Orianna, decent utility, some good burst to generally carry game. Post rework, she was on the level with utility mages like Lux, which sucked.

At this point, all I'll say is let's wait for the final changes. Rickless has mentioned this is subject to change, but majority of Karma players aren't quite happy. Mid/Top laners are unhappy but the general consensus among all Karma players is that the changes were nice for supporting but it also gutted her mid strength further.

Rather than thinking about how these changes are beneficial for Karma and arguing whether she's intended to be a support or AP Mid, a much more ideal behavior would be to realize that these changes did not effectively meet Riot's goals of making Karma a good support, because at the same time, it damaged Karma's magey aspects.

There's a lot of discussion worth bringing to table now but unfortunately this is up to NA players. I have no say on anywhere because I'm from the South East Asian region and I can't hop on to the Karma NA thread. Another question Riot should (hopefully) consider is whether the rework helped Karma for the past two years.

I was thinking about her kit and I realized even though she's got more utility and power, they were all over the place. Shield with Haste, Tether with Snare and Heal, a straight up front loaded Q nuke.

Lots of discussion needed at the moment because everyone's complaining about having the Old Karma back, which means New Karma didn't quite meet the goals. My only thoughts now are..

Reworking Passive once more

Changing Q's mechanics or overall skill

Shift back MS Boost to W and retain damage whilst stripping off Heal

Remove haste off E and only retain AoE shield + AoE Damage

Mantra needs to go back on 2 charges

The best way to put her heal back is on her Q.

FYI, for those of you who don't know. Karma's current kit wasn't the originally proposed kit. The initial rework was just giving her more hard CC + range adjustments. It was scrapped off as Scarizard mentioned it made her OP. Halfway through he just stopped talking about her rework and suddenly Morello came in. Not sure what happened but Riot staffs admitted poor communication for her rework, since it was the first full scale rework they did.

Riot needs to know Karma players are fine if they need time to rework or redesign her thematically..