Talk:VPBE/@comment-24385282-20160225215630/@comment-24385282-20160228234023

1. AP is fun because he deals a lot of damage. Dealing a lot of damage can be fun, especially when its done a way that you don't typically see or is unexpected.

2. AD Jarvan deals damage in different ways than AP J4 that are generally not as fun, to me personally. It's further less fun because everyone expects it. Plus, people will typically build armor against an AD J4 and it will become even less fun because it deals even less damage. While AP, J4 still has some hefty physical damage so armor might be built against him, causing his to not have its damage reduced much due to his enemies having less MR.

3. No, it should not be. I explained this with and  as well, I'll use the Xin example to help explain it here. Xin Zhao had a massive amount of healing when built AP but his damage and was lower. Riot decided that, because players liked using a "gimmicky" build to get massive healing on Xin, it would be a good idea to just incorporate that with his meta playstyle. However, they were forced to nerf its strength due to combining the best of both worlds, and no matter how you build him, Xin's healing will no longer be as strong.

3. (cont.) If they were to give massive damage to Demacian Standard for J4's meta build (which I referred to as AD J4 simply because it typically involves building AD, and not AP), a similar situation would occur, and no matter what the end result was, for J4 to remain balanced he would no longer be able to ever deal as much damage with Swag Flag as he used to, which is the fun part of building him AP. Essentially, a balanced kit would be changed with the only result being that a fun playstyle was no longer available, or if it is it's not as fun as it used to be. Furthermore, considering that the Flag would start being a damage source for the meta J4, it's not unlikely that other parts of his kit would be nerfed as well, leading to neither playstyle retaining all of the fun, balanced strengths they used to at full capacity.

"My major point is that you keep saying the off-builds are more fun but you aren't acknowledging that that is a problem." I do not "acknowledge" it because I do not believe it is true. Both builds/playstyles are fun, both are balanced. One is arguably stronger than the other but is arguably less fun. They gameplay styles are extremely different, one is a mage and the other is a fighter, and they offer about the same amount of counterplay for the enemy (Swag Flag is, I assure you, quite dodge-able, not to mention miss-able). None of what I just said is a problem.

If you've ever seen AP J4 played outside of URF, you should understand that it is not toxic.