Talk:Garen/@comment-28465461-20170227025328/@comment-31203455-20170303104726

Basically, no. -- Garen does not need a rework anyway, because he has had one when he became a Juggernaut. Not saying suggestions are bad, just that in the end he doesn't need one.

He is "baby's first" juggernaut. He is meant to be simple. The lack of mana adds to that simplicity. -- His original passive is a large part of his juggernaut playstyle. If he can get away, he can sustain. He doesn't need to recall as often. Again, Garen is simple and meant to be easy to play. The sustain is there to allow a safer time in lane and less frequent returns to base later in the game.

The suggested Passive is not bad, but not good for Garen. While the rest of the suggested Passive and Q restrict his ability to engage as Juggernauts should be, it removes the ability for people to get away as easily, which is unfair. -- Let's be honest, Berryeater, you are the same person who doesn't understand the difference between a marksman and a mage. 4 seconds is a massive duration. Consider if a champion had a 4 second cast time, is that short enough? A 4 second silence on a caster is anathema.

As for your suggestion; you already have him taking 20% reduced damage, now he is reducing damage further? Far too much. Also, Garen is not Yasuo. He is a massive man with bunkers strapped to each shoulders. Any larger leaps than the simple up-down he does currently would be incredibly stupid.

Animations need to be at least somewhat feasible

He already has crowd control in the form of the silence and even then, crowd control is not required on a Juggernaut. Mordekaiser has no cc, Illaoi has a slow.

Oh, and consider he brings down a massive fuck-off energy sword from the sky, I think Garen is more than capably of concussing a champion into dazed silence with a length of lethal steel.

Why are you giving Garen damage reduction, AD reduction, movement speed, Yasuo's Blink Gap closer, bonus damage and hard crowd control?! -- Garen's current W is one of two components that make him a Juggernaut. The fact that it is such a simple bunker button, is because Garen is meant to be easy to pick up for new comers. Again, he should not have mana, so then he shouldn't have your new ability.

What you have suggested is stuff complications in for the sake of flare. More crowd control? Seriously? Darius has a slow and a pull. One is soft cc and the other is just on the hard side of cc. You want to give Garen a stun and a knock up!?

You also want to turn Garen into Yasuo II, the Second Coming. Able to set himself up. We can also add in the problem with Garen even being able to make such an attack. He doesn't have the shoulder movement to make such a sweep.

Juggernauts do not need to have every active button filled with a damaging skill. Take a look at the current Juggernauts. None of them have massive armour shredding burst damage and crowd control on all skill. Some have 3 offensive skills, yes, but they are all gated in one form or another. They are either applied non-instantly or require something before they can be cast. -- See, Garen's current E is bad enough that is eventually shreds armour, but at least it doesn't remove 30% immediately like your suggested W which would then add to the crowd control and increased damage the rest of his kit would give.

Why the fuck are you adding RNG into the equation? RNG is anathema to League of Legends. The game is not built of RNG. DotA 2 is because the game has RNG at its core and then laced extensively throughout the Heroes and game mechanics. League of Legends now only has Dragon and Critical Strike. That is bad enough.

You can't suspend a champions ability to be fucked over or become god like with 1 instance of RNG. Especially with how much cc, tank and damage Crazy-Garen would have. RNG on a champion would only be bearable if it was the main focus of the entire kit, and had mechanics in place to make all outcomes fun. -- 'NOOOOOOOOOO! NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! NO!'

No. Seriously, no. Some people will remember the infamous "Fleedling Hyneken Vs Percentage Maximum Health True Damage and the World" cheery bickerfest. The only thing worse than Percentage Maximum Health True Damage is Percentage Missing Health True Damage.

Bloody hell, here you go with the same malarkey that went on with Ziggs. There you called him a Marksman because his auto-attacks use physical objects.

Toxic implies so sort of anti-fun in a mechanic, skill, item or champion. Are you saying that Darius is Toxic because he uses a physical object?

True damage implies that the force of the attack is so great that it goes straight through defences. The purpose of the attack; for Darius it is to execute the target. Darius also has to set up those bleeds with his limited engage and crowd control. Not only that but the True Damage is flat.

If you want some literal valediction for true damage instances. The blade is so sharp. The swing is so strong. The baguette was strong with that one. The attack is so precise. The venom slips past out defences and is so virulent. The third auto attack was fuelled by shear wank. The magic acts on a different plane of existence. The caster develops an understand of the enemy and is able to break through their defences. And so on.

Otherwise, by your own logic, Garen's ultimate should remain magical because its a magic energy sword.

Not only would a Percentage Missing Health True Damage Nuke be so overwhelmingly unfair, especially on Crazy-Garen's oppressive kit, but it would also remove the point in having Darius. Think about how your champion idea/rework can fit into their own niche rather than invading that of other, established champions. -- You completely remove Garen from his intended purpose and just turn him into an oppressive tanky heavy damage dealer.

Please take time to consider what is fair and what is simply giving a champion too much.