Board Thread:Wiki discussions and announcements/@comment-1876049-20150731182500/@comment-1920550-20150809231347

JasonWildBlade wrote: About the squishy thing, I edited my comment to make my point more clear about my issue with you telling me why certain champions' descriptions say they are squishy but others' do not.

You are being very subjective in my opinion here. You say 1.5 arm time is piss poor, or that Twitch's escape is weaker because it's not instant. I do not agree - Lucian and Graves, for example, have very, very short ranged dashes that are instant, but for just a very short arm time Twitch gets up to 8 seconds of invisibility and a movement speed buff. Perhaps you should change the wording of the description to "lack of instant escape tools." As for the issue I retain with him being marked as fragile and "weak and vulnerable early on," see my other comments and paragraph 1 of this comment.

Range has nothing to do with movement speed. Whether he is melee or not, he is faster than Kog'Maw but the descriptions make him sound much slower. Sion's only gapcloser is his ultimate, yet when I mentioned Graves having an ultimate of long range, it was counted by you as irrelevant due to it's long cooldown. Sion's ultimate overall has a much longer cooldown than Graves' (far higher at rank 1, a little higher at rank 2, a little lower at rank 3). Why do you get to decide when the cooldown of an ability is relevant to its, well, relevance, but I do not get to decide? If we aren't including CC as a gapcloser, many melee champions have no gapcloser outside of their ultimate, or none at all, yet they are generally not described as slow or cumbersome.

I wouldn't say that Vayne is not short-ranged, because the maximum range of all of her abilities and attacks are 550. However, Graves has an attack range of 525 but abilities with ranges of 950 and up to 1800. For example, you would describe Kog'Maw's range as extremely high, despite having an attack range of only 500, so clearly if basic attack range is the only short-ranged attack the champion has while the rest of their ranges are decently high, they are still high ranged.

Please do not make assumptions about the way I think or view things. If you'll notice, I've taken direct or nearly direct quotations of yours to describe what you have previously said to me (look at anything that I've said "you have said" or "you would say" about and I will show you where you specifically said that). It's very condescending to say "you view this one way, but it's actually another way," especially if that's not even the way I view it anyway. I find it amusing that you complain about us making assumptions, when you are making your own.

Let's run some examples. I'm top lane Kennen, going for a TP/ult engage on the ADC on two games. In one we have a Twitch, in the other Lucian. Flash summoner spell aside and assuming equal player capacity. I can catch Twitch with my ultimate and burst him 100-0 after a certain point with a R-W even if he stealth's or not. On the other hand, Lucian will E away from my ult range, pop the W movespeed and kite me to hell and back. Graves is more than likely to W to blind my vision, dash out and burst me down. That's the difference. And that is not subjective. And i also find it amusing that you say for me view your previous comments about Twitch's frailty when i actually gave you several reasons (dependancy of longer trades, lack of instant escape tools, lack of peel, squishy deffensive stats) why this is and you apparently glossed over then.

Another one. I'm toplane Cho'Gath in one game and Maokai in the other and build Righteous Glory in both champions for the engage, pop it and go in. On Mao i can simply pop the W after getting in cast range an i just lockdown my opponent instantly. What do i do on Cho? I can silence my opponent, but that won't make him stop moving. I can knock him up, but the delay makes it so i can literally avoid it by walking to the side. That's the difference. Most pure tank based characters have some form of reliable lockdown or way to close the gap or both. Cho does not. And being a gigantic melee tank with telegraphed spells, no gapclosers and having to get in melee range to reliably kill you is being "slow and cumbersome". Hell i think a Rioter even described him in the Red Post forums of SS@20 in similar terms when talking about rework possibilities and his gameplay style.

And you keep tunneling on MS, when in reality base MS is worth jack on alot of characters. You could decrease Vi's MS to 325 (actually they shaved 5 MS from her a few months ago), the lowest in the game and she'll still be one of the most mobile junglers due to her double dash. Same thing with Zed as an assassin midlaner. Trist has 325 movespeed and she is one of the most mobile ADC due to her 900 range dash. Xerath has 340 movespeed, which is above average and he's still one of the easiest mages to kill when you close the gap on him, compared to Ziggs who shares several kit similarities and 325 movespeed but can escape and peel away with a W.

Also in terms of cooldown ultimates, you don't take into account build paths. Sion will build 40% CDR in almost all occassions, lowering his ult CD to 35'ish seconds, meaning if planned correctly he can use it twice in a teamfight. Graves on the other hand has a higher rank 3 CD and builds almost no CDR outside of an occassional Ghostblade, which means his ult CD will be in the ball park of 75-70 seconds, twich of Sion's own. Outside of that Graves has one offensive spell which is his Q, that requires close range contact to deal full burst damage and a deffensive steroid that pops in combat. Did you know that Graves more recent number tweaks was to his Q, where Riot made it so it could deal more damage from upclose, but less from a poke based perspective since that was the intended playstyle they layed out for Graves.