Talk:Fiora/@comment-4131177-20130224114757/@comment-4131177-20130306081431

Okay, maybe i didnt write it explicitly enough, but i tried to see it from a laning fiora perspective (your perspective), as comparing jungle and lane didnt make much sense to me. Sorry if it was ambiguous, i'm not discussing in my native language.

I still adress your points chronologically, for simplicity sake.

Now, you assume that everyone plays perfect during the entire game. In that case, the lane is also warded permanently and you can't gank at all. Of course enemies make mistakes. When i jungle, one of the enemy lanes is almost always overextending. Even if not, you can gank certain lanes from behind. With Q-AA-Q-AA-(Bilgewater if available)-W-as much AA as possible, i get out more than 7 autoattacks easily, especially when your lane mate brings some CC (which i take for granted, as it is much, much more often the case than it is not the case). I agree that i did not take into account that Q is always available during a gank while R is not, my fault. It adds another damage difference of 2-3 autoattacks, and i start seeing where you are going. Nontheless, due to her kit and her AS-Steroid, as said before, it is not at all unrealistic to get more and more autoattacks going for you. I think this discussion does not make any sense since there are too many possible and impossible situations, so of course either of our maxing preferences could benefit more than the other in one of those situations.

When they autoattack you, and you are not able to successfully use your Riposte, you are doing it wrong. This defensive move is just like a skillshot. You need to predict and use accordingly. It's like coming with the Argument "Dont max Q on Xerath first because you can not be sure that it will hit the enemy". In most ganking situations i had till now, i either got retaliation or i had to chase. Retaliation makes it possible to take advantage of W proc, and chase and the resulting AAs make more use of W's active.

The second part of my paragraph was an attempt to see it from a laning fiora perspective (I did not want to be insolent, i tried my best here to find the same level of discussion). So, when seeing it from a jungle gank perspective it is even less likely that you do not use one Q for gapclosing. It is fun how you say in the first paragraph "There is no way the enemy is pushed that far unless he's stupid", but now you are taking exactly that situation and act as if it was an every-day situation in order to defend that you will always hit bot of your Qs. However, i stick to what you said in the first paragraph: Good players are not that stupid, so you will never get out one of your Q's on champions.

Some maths so you dont have to make them (no ult, no W proc)

90 (base dmg lunge lvl 3) + 18 (1,2% bonus AD ratio) + 15 (Ad from 1 AA) = 123

40 (base dmg lunge lvl 1) + 30 (1,2% bonus AD ratio) + 25 (Ad from 1 AA) = 95

Get out 3 Autoattacks with E and there you go. Seems legit to me. With Ult up, it would hit even harder.

I used to run Lifesteal Quints on her when i played her on TT some times, it worked pretty well. But as jungler i dont see an alternate to MS quints on her. Your argument here, again, only works when you hit both Q's, which i find unlikely unless you have CC from your lane mate involved, and if it was like that you can also easily get out more AAs.

Yes, ganks don't last long, but E says still high. During E duration, getting out 3-4 AAs (especially with the MS buff) is not that much of a deal. If you can't get those out, maxing Q is probably the better option, but well, i get them out most of the time, and since you said you are a better player than me i wonder why you don't then.

Everything is situational. That's why you have to pick the most likely situations, and build into that direction. Fiora is very straight forward. There are champions out there who have room for situational skilling, but not fiora. I love playing her, she is an awesome champ, but i won't give her more depth than she has.

I still think going on with this discussion is pointless though. You choose if you still want to respond.

I still would like to spectate a game of laning fiora, just so i can maybe learn it myself and see how Q works in lane, so i could better understand your points. Mind if i do? When are your online times? No, i am not planning to troll you or pick a fight. I just want to see how it works.