Board Thread:Wiki discussions and announcements/@comment-3308937-20140828121932/@comment-25284938-20140911044258

BlackSmith wrote:

LonelyFlame wrote: Look we get what you're saying, but it makes sense as it is. Shaw Fujikawa wrote: Because the formula is per level, not per level up. Whats teh sense making people do math on a wikia that is about imaginary characters bashing each others? Your entry level suggestion for the wikia is shoving the average reader Joe with formulas? Really? What makes it good to make the reader start calculating level one stats instead of giving him the level one stats where from he can start calculating if needed. The per level formula forces math done very time, per level up only when leveling up. Because I'm giving the average reader more credit than you by assuming they can do basic math. That said, the current method DOES the addition for you. The numbers change as you change level, so an average reader can go 'Oh the numbers changed. I guess that means that something happens when the level changes.' It's not that hard to figure out.

Also: Entry level suggestion? Want to clarify what you mean by this there buddy?

LonelyFlame wrote: Your method clutters up the page. Your serious? Its one additional column to a section that has 200px or 23% empty space in it. Except that it isn't one additional column, it's 2. You have an additional column on the left side and an additional column on the right.

LonelyFlame wrote: As it's already been pointed out, your method takes out levels 2-17. Having a drop box for just those levels adds even more pointless clutter. We have this option of having a method that calculates the numbers for a reader instead of making him doing math. You really think its nice, friendlier to have the reader doing math instead of offering the numbers? And I fail to see how it takes them out. I also have feeling that you missed the point or read wrong so here is a pic. Explain to me how exactly the reader ends up doing any math. Please. Because right now the current method is: click the drop down box, click a number, the stats change to reflect that level. At what point in the process is the reader taking out a calculator and going 'hmm if I'm on level 13 I'll be this times this.'?

This creates unnecessary information for the reader. When the reader is looking at a champs stats at level 13, why is the information for level 18 shown? If that changes when you pick a level between 2-17, why have on level 1 in the first place? And, I would assume, that on level 18 you would have level 1 stats shown as well? Or are you meaning to tell me that the level 1 stats are always shown? Because in any case, this idea is pretty poor from all angels.

LonelyFlame wrote: It's a good design. Eveyone likes it. Please just stop saying it should be changed because you don't like it. If its so good design then you sure don't have any problems grounding why it is a good design? Its hilarious that first you say 'eveyone', that includes me, and then point out that i don't like it. That said, this is not about liking or not liking. Because I was speaking broadly but in all honesty, I'm not accounting your opinion on this matter because it's already been approved and rolled out. Pretty simple.

Shaw Fujikawa wrote: While there's points to both sides, it's not in your best interests to constantly insist that having a level zero is useless when it best displays the per-level gains for each stat. Why you are putting words to my mouth? Showing level zero values _is_ useless as it only serves those that want to do math exercise to get stats. I have _never_ said that showing progress is pointless. There you go with the math again. Level 0 NEEDS NO WORKING OUT. THERE IS NO MATH INVOLVED IN ANYTHING.

Shaw Fujikawa wrote: I still don't understand what you have a problem with now that the drop down exists and you can clearly see the precise level 1 stats if you so desire. I say it again, why default view shows values that player never sees? So the reader can see how much each level is going up by. You're saying that the reader is going to end up having to do the math but you see at level 0 that stats have (+XX) next to them, and when you go to level 1 the stats have increased by that amount.

To me its getting more and more obvious that you all are quite skilled, uber and good folks in wiki/meta stuff and all that but you also miss the objectiveness. Readers over experts. Does the common 13 year old player, that does not read those patch notes, understand that when he lands to the champion page the numbers he sees are not actually the numbers he sees in game, that he first needs to pass math test until he can get the real numbers? Or if the lander is xPeke, why make him do math to see first level stats? What _purpose_ does it serve? Yes. I believe that anyone reading this wiki can do general freaking math, in the same way that I believe anyone reading this wiki has general literacy skills. In order to play a game like League of Legends and read up information about it, it is safe to assume that the reader has basic numeracy an literacy skills. The original formatting gave you the level 1 stats of a champ and how much they went up a level. That was it. If you wanted to see what stats they would have at level 11, you would have to work that out. This method doesn't do that. It shows that at level 0 you have the stats shown and they will go up by X amount, meaning that when you get to level 1 you end up with what people see as the base stats. It is simple math that the reading should get.