Talk:Riven/@comment-4977390-20130225202841/@comment-5.83.71.124-20130226184254

I'm not going to even bother with FrostyPuff. Basing your playstyle on streams just leaves you at a very bad spot.

"I don't know what kind of scrubs you play with, but if you're first into a fight as Riven (i.e. the primary focus target), you or your team are doing something horribly wrong. Riven is not the tip of the spear, she's follow-up and clean-up. As I said earlier in this thread, if you want to play like that, you're better off with someone like Irelia or Garen, who are DESIGNED to go in first and soak attention. Both have innate CC reduction, sticking power, and threat without damage items." Well, you're not always going to be protected by your team, regardless of the obvious roles (Yeah, Riven isn't an initatior). It's unavoidable that sooner or later they will focus you, and if they don't, given how hard Riven snowballs, they won't shut you down, wich is something more typical of the scrubs you talk about.

"Your line about "CDR is pointless" is a complete non sequitur. CDR is pointless because Morgana can bind you for her team to blow you up? On what planet are these things even related to each other? CDR is there to make QWE available more often, end of story. CDR isn't even necessarily mutually exclusive with defenses: I have a 9/21/0 mastery page specifically to deal with CC-heavy teams where not even Merc's is enough. I still have ~29% CDR in the final build" Obviously you've never been disrupting while using Q so you can't finish it, and CDR won't save your ass when you're getting focused. 9/21/0 masteries are not the same as getting Merc's+something defensive. Not even close. Now there's the end of the story.

"Riven gets zero free defensive stats. Garen gets 20% bonus Armor/MR, plus percentage damage reduction right off the top, plus tenacity, plus a free slow removal. Add that to the fact that his ultimate scales with health-stackers, and you have a tanky badass that's rewarded for going hybrid offensive/defensive, because he doesn't have to itemize for tenacity and Armor/MR/health is worth more on him than it is someone with no defensive steroids." Riven gets 25% extra total AD. I don't even need to add more to the line.

"You don't build like Garen, but you play like Garen, so why not just play Garen? Skip the middle man. Two defensive items is overkill on Riven." Now you're going balls deep. Just because you don't like how I play SITUATIONALLY Riven (Because I've already stated that some other times I go full AD) doesn't means it's not viable. Sometimes it's even optimal, wether you like it or not.

"Yeah, it's called B.F. Sword and a Chain Vest. Welcome to Season 3, where piecemeal builds are actually viable, because the gigantic premium on Legendary items has been removed. It gives more AD (up to 3000 health) and 5 less Armor than Atma's, for the same money, and you have multiple upgrade paths for either item later on (2x Cloth if you want Randuin's instead). The crit on Atma's is already useless on Riven, so you don't miss it." Yeah, you're going to build those two when you have just one slot left. Please...

''"You ignored my point, which had nothing to do with killing people. I'll make it again: Riven CANNOT PEEL WITHOUT CDR. She has two abilities to peel: Ki Burst, and the third hit of Broken Wings. There is nothing else in her kit that will allow her to get someone off of her carry's face, so unless you want to buy a Mallet, you'd better start stacking CDR, otherwise you are useless for ~6-10s while the other team goes ape on your ADC.

I don't see how you can claim that being tanky lets you "peel effectively", unless you don't understand what "peel" means."'' I am? Or maybe you are the one ignoring my point? For what exactly do you want to peel if you're not going to kill? Again, CDR is just plain dumb when you already can kill with just one faceroll.

And if you don't see how getting tankier helps peeling, well, bad for you. I've pretty much pointed it all-around the thread. I'm not going to keep repeating myself. Either keep yourself blind with this dogmatism or test it, DUH.

"Calling CDR useless makes you nearly as bad as the noob who denies the power of AD. What kind of goddamn shitshows are your teamfights that you see no utility in having a second AOE stun 4.2s after the first? Does everyone build six damage items and blow up instantly, so fights last a fraction of a second?" Oh, nice argument here, it actually made you look quite like an adult. So now I say "Calling defenses useless but acclaim CDR makes you look worse than a noob" and who wins? Doesn't matters. Please, stop going derpy.

And now let me ask you: What kind of goddamn shitshows are your teamfights that you THINK there's utility in having a second AOE stun 4.2s after the first? Does everyone build six damage items and blow up instantly, so fights last a fraction of a second? Because FRANKLY, it doesn't makes that much a different to use your stun every 6 seconds from 4.2, you shouldn't be the only one with CC in your team.

"Because where I hang my hat, people build defensive items on damage dealers (usually Mog's), the supports and junglers build Bulwark and Locket, and protecting my carry's positioning with stuns and knockbacks is very nearly as important as jumping on their MVP and blowing him/her up. I'm also going to get 2-3 Valors in a battle, because fights actually last that long, and that's a ton of extra health." As derpy as you're going, you gave me the right to say this: I get two Valors and I wreck everything without the need of another one. /thread.