Talk:Lissandra/@comment-9008617-20130503213021/@comment-9008617-20130510090256

"I read the post, have you? You phrased it like Kennen's E is meant to tank the entire team -_-. And to counter that, items. Tanky items, Zhonya's etc."

How about you just cut it out with the "Did you even read??" crap already. You're clearly the one here who can't follow a conversation or construct a logical train of thought. I didn't phrase it that Kennen is meant to tank the entire team, I'm basing it off what his skills actually do and require...

"And have you seen Kennen's skill values?

8-4 on his Q. As compared to 6-4.

14-6 on his W. As compared to 18-10.

10-6 on his E. As compared to 24-12.

'The only CD which Liss can outclass Kennen is in her ult. Is that biased?"'

I never said Lissandra beat Kennen in terms of CDs now did I, smarty pants? Sigh, seriously, strawman arguments againnn. What next? You going to start an argument about how Kennen can run faster with his active E than Lissandra can run with her ult? Again, we were talking about the practicality of landing stun and the inherent danger to Kennen requiring to dive enemy teams to make use of his AoE mark applying ult and E. But sure, lets talk about CDs for no apparent reason. I already mentioned how his Q is a shorter range skillshot than Ezreal's, how Kennen's W active requires active pre-existingstacks on the enemy, etc... but sure, ignore reading all that and make up yet another strawman for yourself to beat up.

"How Karthus's Q is more forgiving than Lissandra's Q? In range, spammability and damage. 4 Q's from Karthus can deal 2 times that of Lissandra's Q even if it is the multiple target damage. And your response will be?"

My response will be awe... simple awe. You ignore everything I posted earlier about practicality, efficiency, and simple math. And instead of comparing 4 Karthus Q's to 2 Lissandra Q's... why don't you just use basic fractions and just compare 2 Karthus Q's to 1 Lissandra Q?  LOL

In any case, here are a few questions for you...

What's easier to do: to land two hits or to land one?

What does more damage: 2 weaker hits that get reduced by magic resist for each hit (i.e. twice) or 1 stronger hit that gets mitigated by magic resist only once?

What's better:  a skillshot that doesn't reduce in damage when hitting multiple targets or a 0.5 second delayed skill aoe that's both easy to dodge and the damage gets halved for multiple targets?

Such easy questions, pretty sure most 12 yr olds can grasp that concept...

'"You said he was squishy and he couldn't AA, "You're still a squishy literally running into enemy champs and you can't even AA while doing so." So, "Grow up and accept puberty. And also your mistakes.". To which I already have accepted 1 mistake I have done, and you have been trying to shift any mistake you made to me, take responsibility for your mistakes you "big boy"."'

What's the mistake? I'm still failing to see it. We went from talking about Kennen stuns to Kennen ADC to Kennen AAs to Kennen squishy to Kennen CDs for no known reason... It's like you're trying so hard to form proper arguments and sometimes words in your head but they don't seem to make it onto the screen...

And by the way, this debate here... don't kid yourself, there isn't some golden mean fallacy. There is no middle ground where we both made terrible mistakes, you have yet to provide any argument to sway me or anyone with half a brain otherwise. I'm not suddenly going to concede just because you finallyyy realized just a small fraction of your ignorance.

"Map awareness can take you so far. And with a CD that bi at early levels, go on Rambo..."

Okay, lets assume you're terrifed of your own shadow and you can't follow the map or pings your allies send you. You do realize many champs don't even have a secondary flash right? Just because it's a really good mobility spell, it doesn't mean you should limit yourself but hey, that's up to you. I'll just do 50% more damage whether it be for farming or harassing.

"Yeah, my bad on pasting the link, here : http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Range And 550 is even to the range of your ult, which means you have to be able to reach him IF you want to ult him, or just ult one of the enemy's frontlines. And why shouldn't I refer to Twitch's ult? It is an ability and it enhances range??!?!?!?!?!?"

So you're basically saying what exactly? That 3 ADCs get pwned by Lissandra's ult right off the bat because they're shorter range, 8 ADCs (I counted 6) get at most one AA in before getting pwned, and the remaining 3 ADCs (Cait, Trist, Varus) have longer AA range? How exactly is that bad again if 11 out of the 14 or so RANGED ADCs in the game are in Lissandra's ult range? This reminds me of the scene from Watchmen when Rorschach says, "You got it wrong.  I'm not trapped in here with you.  You're trapped in here with me." XD

Twitch's ult is an ult... if you're going to try use Lissandra and come to burst him down and he activates it while you're > 550 range and proceeds to kite your Lissandra then you're probably doing it wrong.

And in regards to bursting, about 90% of summoners use a spell called Flash. Try it sometime. That's why glacial path is considered a secondary Flash because there's a primary flash....

"I didn't post their CD because you can just as easily search it up, and having a better AoE slow than Lissandra's single target slow on a 4-6 CD is even or better."

You didn't post because it didn't help your argument and instead showed the weakness in your argument. Re-read what i said:

"I never said her kit is balanced...  My gosh, learn to read.  I told you to look at her entire kit because you have a knack for looking at her Q's 28% slow and not the damage, the spammability, the range, the waveclear, or anything else and simply arguing that 28% slow isn't as big of a slow as Nasus 95% slow...   Clap.. clap... clap."

"What does reducing MR do? Oh please tell me because I have absolutely no idea what MR can do to an enemy's MR...."

And what part of Karthus' kit reduces MR? The 18 sec CD wall of pain? Yea? That same old unforgiving skill that requires your enemy walk through it? That one? Really?

"She has enough range to get dived on by nearly every bruiser in the game. That's how low her range is."

Even Ezreal with his almighty poke can be dived by a lot of bruisers if they have their gapclosers, CC, or flash/ghost ready. Also working as a team gank helps. But how many have an AoE root and 1.5 second stun and a gajillion CCs to kill or escape with? You keep trashing her range and yet I've given you numbers but you refuse to listen. So be it. You're just a waste of time.

"And do you think any other APC needs the team to do more damage than her? Yes, this is a team game, and Lissandra provides some CC and some damage to her team. If you want more CC, a support can do more. More damage? Another APC can do more. Having your team deal a majority of your damage.... I wonder how tough of a phrase that is for someone with an understanding of your level."

First, that's been your claim this entire time but given all her skills do AoE damage and quite decent AP anddd CD scaling backed with CCs up the arse, she's hardly considered weak by any standard. Hell, you're the one talking about bursting down carries using Lissandra. What are you even basing this off of "majority of your damage" bullcrap.

I fail to see why you keep insinuating she needs the team so badly and why that is a bad thing in a TEAM game?

Right, you should totally insult my intelligence level given that phD of a thesis you've turned out this past week.

"You indirectly said it, saying that if I don't farm without E means you automatically get more farm. Really, you can't understand what you yourself wrote?"

Wow, just wow.

Here's what YOU said: "So, farming without E = being able to farm better? Grow up, you still have to AA to get most of the creeps."

P W N E D

'nuff said.

"Using E at level 1 rank means you have that 325 MS to walk yourself out of a gank. So what does this mean? "So yeah, her glacial path flash not being instant is a drawback but it's balanced by the rest of her kit." Or was this written by your nephew?"

Walking out of a gank? Why are we suddenly talking about Kennen walking out of a gank? Why? What is your brain on? Do you even read what I write or are you just mental with an internet connection?

What is wrong with what I said?

'"Aaaaand what about her kit is OP in your words? In your exact words, is it because of the low CD's? The CC? The damage? The AoE? Or is it just you have no exact reason? Just some random guy who though "Oh! She seems to strong that I can't do anything against her on any champ! She must be OP!" Grow . Up . You have shown nothing OP about Lissandra and even contradicted yourself, never took mistakes you have made and just tried to shift it on me and failed to see Lissandra for how she is, a tanky AP short range mage. And they way you say, "Oh, who needs E. I can just escape when it comes out of CD after some time....""'

Contradicted myself? When did I contradict myself? I said the rest of her kit balances the small amount of time it takes for her to use glacial path as a flash, namely her CCs. Ezreal has an instant flash but it's less than half the range that Lissandra gets and Ezreal can't AoE root, stun or naturally slow his enemy/gankers.

I'm saying look at the entire damn picture, you nitwit. God damn.

All you got are half-baked counter arguments that have done nothing but fuel my argument when I tear them apart like wet toilet paper and even worse - unoriginal insults which lose all their value when you see a full-blown retard like yourself call someone else a dumbass.

Oh, oh, what are you? Just some random guy who thinks Lissandra has no range at all, uh uh, and she should dive enemy teams.

And here we go again, you won't copy and paste my actual post and reply to it because you know you can't respond to anything. It's better for you to pick a strawman argument and go off on a fun tanget about that and then reward yourself for being able to beat your own strawman so well. Bravo, kid. Go back to playing bots in LoL, you're wasting precious Wikia resources here.