Talk:Fiora/@comment-3493296-20150723014431/@comment-1330314-20150725153048

Again, the AP Lee Sin example is moot, since that build is deliberately unviable, whereas supports are not. Putting aside the cases where supports do purchase AP, which genuinely improves their damage, they also purchase utility, which can help them survive and outplay their opponents in duels. Supports are not built to get kills, but they have the ability to do so.

It's interesting that you assume 1v1s versus tanks have no counterplay, and it highlights your bias in the matter. Even if champions like and  have a ton of lockdown power, they nonetheless also have significant downtimes to their strength, so even when they have items like  or, which allow them to duel a lot better, they can still be outplayed without requiring an effect that ignores the bulk of their itemization. If the only solution you propose is for those champions to receive ganks when against Fiora, then Fiora herself has no counterplay against them. By your rationale, champions like and pre-rework Sion are both healthy to lane against, and deserve to auto-win 1v1s simply because they're terrible otherwise.

It's also arguable that a tank who messes up their positioning still invalidates nothing, since they're punished heavily for it by losing the ability to lock enemies down or peel efficiently, and even the tankiest of champions will die very quickly to focus. In any case, there are a tons of means to deal with tanks in or out of position. By contrast, there is no means of dealing with Fiora alone past a certain amount of raw AD, which is my issue. If she had some kind of cap or per-level scaling to the effect, instead of a bonus AD ratio, then she could still be able to work really well against tanks (which is fine), but at least to a more reasonable degree. Right now, her issue is that her ult and passive let her deal over 100% of her opponent's health in true damage, a.k.a. automatically kill anyone regardless of the defenses they build, and it's that excessive amount of offensive power on a champion who builds AD, which is already naturally good against tanks, that makes her overly good against tanks, and likely any other champion as well.