Talk:Shyvana/@comment-195.255.102.2-20130124074809/@comment-88.186.19.90-20130128140534

Not really. You have no idea what you are talking about. Stop your melodramatic QQ about junglers being useless, most of the ones you mention were viable in S2 and remain so during S3.

Maybe Shyv wasn't designed as a pure jungler, but it doesn't change the fact she clears the jungle very fast very safely with increased Madred proc chances and wins most 1v1 duels; making her an excellent counterjungler.

S2 jungle modifications was to allow more champs than just Warwick, Shaco and Fiddle to jungle. The problem was it was too easy to clear and gank at the same time, meaning junglers put too much pressure on lanes and hence laners couldn't really duke it out without watching their back, so they made S3 jungle, where you have to choose between farming the jungle more or ganking the lanes more. Naut, Alistar, Mundo and Lee Sin's problems during S2 were exactly the same: they could gank too hard too often, still farm the neutral camps and remain ahead with less resistance intensive items. HoG was removed to prevent passive play and the fact that junglers could buy an important stat that didn't slow down your build and get a gold at the same time; all the other gold items remain: the new Avarice Blade is MORE cost effective than any other S2 GP5 item if you farm 9 creeps/minute.

Shyvana wasn't even nerfed hard during S2, she just lost 5 resist on her ultimate, which isn't that important when you build items that bring you a lot of resistance already and there was a bugfix to her burnout, and it didn't affect her jungling all that much beyond the first clear. Opponents learned to wards and react to her invasion, and since she couldn't gank well she became a 1 trick pony, something you don't want to be on the competitive scene.