Talk:Luden's Echo/@comment-26218937-20150319041344

I honestly think this item is pretty terrible on almost every champion in almost every situation. Anyone agree? Here's my reasoning:

Imo the defining part about this item is the passive, the ap is great, but the movement speed is not necessary on most ap casters, and the damage the passive puts out is next to nothing. For example, two champs that people are saying this item is great on, Katarina and ahri.

Katarina:       At max level Katarina's q has base damage of 160, which means that in order for ludens echo to equal the base damage of a q you need 60/0.15  = 400AP. Already with that much ap one kat q does 160 + 0.45*400 = 340 dmg, disregarding the mark proc. You may argue that luden's hits multiple targets, but so does kat's q for more damage to each one.

Ahri:           At max rank an ahri q does 280 base dmg, which requires 1200AP ((280-100)/0.15) !!!! to make luden's proc for that much base damage, at which point an ahri q does 280 + 1200*45 = 820. Again luden's hits multiple targets but so does ahri q, and it is half true dmg.

More: Luden's echo is only 93% gold efficient without passive. Also, lets consider an ap caster build. I think we can agree that 4 item slots almost always always go to boots, regen item (morello/athene), deathcap or abyssal, pen item (liandry's/void). You now have two spots left. There is almost no argument i can make to take ludens over something like zhonya's or rylai's or ga, etc.

Basically I find this item extremely underwhelming and think it needs a passive change or a gold decrease to be viable. Also, I chose those two champs as an example because they seem to be champs people associate this item with.

Thoughts?