Talk:Kayle/@comment-24082016-20150922145420/@comment-24082016-20150925212316

Nah. It's not just you. Concerning those two, the trading has become tougher, but that becomes fixed when your item progression is changed up a bit. Also, I dont do my skill progression the way most Kayles do nowadays. I'll elaborate below.

Skill Progression between lvl 1-8

E->Q->W->Q->W->R->E->Q

Most Kayles nowadays follow the standard belief of  prioritize and max out skills asap accordingly. However, as Kayle, you have a number of concerns to take into account at your lower lvls and laning phase.

1. Your aspd is relatively wack(not even above average)

2. your base AA damage sort of weak, even after lvl 1 E, so last hitting is trciky for early lvls

3. The lvl 1 abilities and mobility makes you rather vunlerable to enemies with hyper mobility moves and high burst damage.(e.g. Riv and Yasuo).

Most player's who use Kayle nowadays only understand that for any decently long game, her E will provide the most damage output. What they fail to understand is that the E only becomes the main source of damage output after certain conditions are met and in certain circumstances. I wrote briefly on this before months ago, but I'll reiterate.

Let's compare the damage between a Q upgraded and an E upgraded. 50+ per Q, 10+ per E. So in order to do the damage provided to a single target equivalent to that of a Q upgraded, an E upgraded would need to do at least 5 hits within the cooldown of the Q. That means you have to stay within your Es range and land at least 5 hits to pump out damage matching what your Q did. That's not an easy feat when you're sporting AS below 1.10, especially not against enemies who can lay on the pressure.

E becomes more useful for lane control, when there are multiple targets huddle together(every additional target makes the bonus damage 100% more useful), And when landing 5 hits within the cooldown of Q is a trivial matter(Qcooldown can be as low as 4.5, so an AS of 1.5or greater will always have E yeild better output damage than Q regardless of single/multi targets).

The reason I aim to get all of Kayle's non ult abilities to lvl 2 first is bc of mana efficiency and strengthning her "base" utility. If you Max her E first, you give up your kiting potential. If you Max your Q first, You can end up wasting alot of mana, and be highly dependent on picking the right target and when targets sheilds are down. If you max E first, the cooldown is incredibly long compared to the alternatives and the mana cost is much greater. The smart thing to do for the first 7 lvls is get all her abilities to lvl 2(not counting her ult), which almost doubles the damage of the Q for a very small additonal mana cost, 60% increases the effectivness of the heal for a small additonal mana cost, and provides better wave control and AA harrassment with your E. The reason i get at least Q 3 before I max E is because it's often a neccesity for dealing with the high mobility opponents, especially if you dont have superior MS.

Vs melee champs that have hyper mobility and lack the need to stay within your harrass range before ready to go all-in on you at the drop of a hat,  an effective means to countering their kill pressure is to have MS that challenges their high mobility ability.

So back to your main question, about how to handle Riv's and Yasuos.

Ultimately, as you've probably ascertained from my drivel above, you need to be be able ot out-mobility them. For people like Riven, that feat is just too impossible without getting early boots tier 1 or tier 2(highly suggested). When she ults, its best not to stick around her. just get your distance, and wait till it wears off, then Force to use her dashing shield(Qs and 1 or 2 mana pots help alot with this), and harrass her repeatedly while its on cooldown. For Yasuo, you keep slapping his face while keeping him away from your minions, which give him the hyper mobolity, but the safer bet incase an enemy jungler is lurking out of sight is to control the minioin wave to stop right infront of your turret, that way you get free harrass on him tha tyou can stack when he wants minions. Poke him enough times, and your kill pressure becomes very real. Same vs the Riven.

First 2 completed items are always Nashors and tier 2 boots with enchantment(furor/alacrity, just about never distortion/homeguard even though i always bring TP top). That obnoxious MS allows you to hold better positioning, lure enemies away while providing urself a good chance of escaping, and allows you to get around the map oh so much faster.

After that, Rylais makes Whatever Yasuo you runinto a joke, and Riven is not as hard to deal with as long you arent in a small bottleneck or straight path. A Riven hit with a lvl 3 or up Q has alot of trouble aiming her triple jumping move. Dont ask why. They just do.

The other 3offensive items I get I'll end up writing about in the guide I'm making(if i ever find the time ot finish it), but if you really want to know what they are, you can just look up my games on the NA server, same username.