Talk:Lee Sin/@comment-8506165-20140118220449/@comment-9705522-20140119192849

high cc team? you cant get better cc than surpreme cc. hell, if you use a standard high cc comp with ori, lee is actually perfect, as he picks one target out for his team to kill, while ccing the other ones. aoe comp, well, 650 +2.0 damage on everyone is huge. also, again, cc. and he is perfect for a "protect the carry" comp. shield to the carry and kick away the guy you need to kick away, then slow everyone nearby and cut their dps in half if they are autoattack based. as for specialists, thats not correct. he outganks a nautilus. why? simple. nautilus entire gank success relies on hitting his q, which he needs to get in range first. lee can q, lee can w, and so on. and a knockback is usually more powerful than a knockup. he outduels a xin with ease (q deals a crapton of damage, w for a bit of sustain and a shield, as well as his passive to increase dps and e to decrease xins dps. the only thing that is true is that he cant outfarm a shyvana. but unlike shyvana thats not all he is good for.

contrary to popular belief (seriously, this misconception managed to stay alive for years now, even though both facts and pros disagree. meh, whatever. "if going damage he gets blown up since his shield scales with ap" havent seen any of the other assasins complaining about lack of defensive abilities. like, what does talon have? well, ok, stealth. which is easy to deal with. when going damage, he is an assasin. a damn good one at that. his damage is insane. "his burst is not that high compared to proper assasins" last time i checked, his burst is better than talons. let me check again. lee, 1.8, 1.0, 2.0. talon, 1.3 (of which 1.0 is a dot), 1.2, 1.5. alright, higher ratios on lees side. base damage. 360, 200, 650. 200, 240 440. wait, thats also more on lees side. sure, there is the 15% thing, but its not enough, lees burst is still higher. ill make a short calculation for ya, with full build. which, lets say, consists of hydra, lw, bc, and maw. 225 bonus ad. 113.4 base ad at lvl 18. well then. base damage is 360+200+650=1210. neat. scalings are 2.0, 1.8, 1.0. thats 4.8. 4.8*225= 1080. hella neat. now, autoattack and hydra. thats 2.0 per ad. 676.8. in total thats a burst of 2966.8. not even considering runes, masteries, his passive giving time for more than one autoattack, missing hp damage. talons is a bit trickier, as he can get a autoattack reset, giving him potential extra burst. but most of the time you wont get that, as that costs too much time. in the end, the burst is about the same. if he goes tank, his skills base damage isnt just good. its amazing. 360. 200. 650. lets compare to, say, jarvan. 250, 240, 450. thats a lot lower. granted, he has passive, but that hardly changes it much. his tankiness isnt enhanced. thats true. moving on. "his cc outside of ult is lacking" err, no. first off, thats a stupid argument. "cc outside of that one gamechanging cc ability is lacking". and 2, its not even true. let me introduce you to cripple, second activation of e, and the currently 3d strongest basic skill, beaten only by morganas shield and yasuos wind wall. why is it so strong? its essentially a shorter duration nasus wither ON AN AOE. with STRONGER attack speed slow. it has, in fact, the strongest attack speed slow period. and he is an initiator. he sets up a kill. not in the sense he potentially ccs the entire enemy team (although he CAN do that), but as in he selects one target, kicks him into your team and essentially makes the teamfight a 4v5.

he doesnt fall off lategame, thats a misconception, he doesnt have real counterpicks (like, how do you counter a guy that is good at everything? literally, i cant think of anything.).

and his kit is unhealthy. not in the usual sense as vis and teemos kit are (kassadins is actuall fine, yeah, he has a silence, but he is meant as a magecounter, and if you are a bruiser or a dps mage you can actually fight back.), namely being extremly frustrating or impossible to play against, but rather as in his kit disturbs pick balance. he is good at everything, has no downside, no weakness, nothing. there is little reason to pick anything besides him except for special conditions he doesnt fill. and it shows in him being the secondmost picked champion for years now, no matter how much the meta changes. and, as i said, he breaks the first rule of perfect imbalance. dont create a character that is good at everything and leaves little reason to pick something else.