Talk:Lissandra/@comment-6301771-20130417014314/@comment-4167645-20130417134704

Lets get to it then. You can attempt to use math to justify stuff, but I base my judgement off usability.

Lissandra is a close-medium ranged character. Long ranged characters typically have lower damage/ratios/higher cd because their relative safety means that they can repeatedly throw spells out. But thats not the main point.

In a practical situation, you would never ever get to use W and E offensively as you are the squishy mage, with E being almost an absolute utility spell like Zigg's remote bomb and as such cannot be counted as a form of damage. Its speed is slow enough to be outrun/dodged by everybody, and firing it into a person means you're going behind him and probably overextending and dying. Almost all mages will have 3 damage spells, and 1 utility that often does little to no damage. Exceptions are those like Syndra, Brand, and Swain. All of which will outdamage Lizzie if they were to be compared. Even an AP Kog'maw would deal comparable/more damage post-nerf as he is a 4 damage spell character.

So my argument is this, E is not a damage spell as you will almost never fire it AT a person and the times you do, it will often NOT hit them. Lizzie depends on Q, R and sometimes W for offense when she gets the chance.

Thus, if you want to include E, then you must also include the values that other mage's utility spells bring if they have them such as heals and shields in which case the values will probably top Lizzie's, and even then she'd lose to 4 offense spell mages. If you don't include E, then her damage will then look smaller than what you are trying to pass off.

P.S. You left out Zigg's minefield, which hit a target with a minimum of 3 mines which means the damage range would be 250-700 additional damage. So Zigg's is a character I consider a 3 damage + 1 utility character, but if you want him to use his satchel charge offensively and classify him as a 4 damage spell character then his damage inclusive of the 3 mines will beat Lizzie's on top of being much longer ranged.