Talk:Vayne/@comment-26291883-20150419121153/@comment-24496127-20150422204823

People over value vaynes w. I had a game where I was 8/2/2 at one point against an amumu, nautilus, and i want to say Riven but can't really remember. Anyway, they built nothing but armor/health, and Naut Riven made doing anything impossible. Sure the w is strong, but you need to hit the same target three times to take 8% of their health. When you're only doing like 100 damage per auto attack because your target has 400 armor(not an exageration on how much armor they had) you need to proc silver bolts near 7 times for them to die. Thornmail along with that made doing anything impssible.

I suppose that's a case where you'd need a strong ap carry. We had a Yasuo mid. This game is easily the best example of a time where Kog/varus/ez wouldve been better for lategame I can think of. As for dueling, in a tank meta it's pretty hard to find duels. Mostly because in the time it would take for me to chase down a tank their team gets there, the enemy adc stays grouped or farms safely, and the enemy mid can often cc then burst you, or just run.

Lastly, many popular champs right now bring cc that's unavoidable or just screws you over. Naut's ult, Amumu's ult(in some scenarios), Vi's ult, Hecarim(I've seen him miss his ult then STILL burst the adc), Malphite(Dunno if he's popular but I've been seeing him), Sejuani's general overpoweredness. It's just really hard to work with such an unsafe adc. By unsafe I mean getting in range also puts you in range, by the way.