Talk:Vi/@comment-26433263-20150803234855/@comment-9705522-20150810143732

No, thats wrong. But lets go over it step-by-step.

"all she can do is initiate,    no more differently than Malhpite, Maokai, Amumu or Sejuani", actually, its very different. There are 2/3 major things that differentiate Vis ult from these ults, and make Vis ult toxic and terrible design, while these are fine. Because these ults can be dodged/dealt with and have no good followup. Vis ult cannot be dodged or dealt with, and has immideate great followup. Thats what the difference is, and its useless to deny it.

Thats not counterplay in the slightest. Thats an intended consequence of Vis ult. Thats the perfect position for her, exactly the one she wants to be in. Consider this. Vi is a very tanky, high damage bruiser who is able to kill you while having the tools to get to you and stick on you. So where would Vi want to be, if not in the face of the enemies MVP in order to bash said face in?

Hell, that argument is like saying that the counterplay to Jax using his Q to get into your team is that he is in your team. Of course he is in your team, thats where he wants to be, so he can start breaking your teams kneecaps. Same goes for Vi. She wants to be in your team, so she can start killing people.

But, to further show the weakness of the argument, consider this. By the time anyone can even hit Vi, that ADC will only have 30% of their HP left. Your team got CCd for a bit, and has to reposition. Her team will likely use righteous glory now and rush into your team. If you focus Vi and kill her, well, thats gonna take a while, she is tanky as all hell (4k hp, 200 armor, 10% shield), and by the time you are done with that, your team is likely demolished by their team.

Which of course means that the only correct answer to Vis ult is completely ignoring Vi, letting her kill your carry (which your carry cant do anything about) and instead going for a counterengage on that carry. It makes it somewhat balanced, but the fact that Vis target, usually the carry, will die without him or his team being able to do anything about is anything but fun. Its antifun. Its more toxic than Norilsk.

She does a lot of damage while being very tanky. High base damage, good autoattack animation, % hp damage with armor shred and double attack reset. So she will be doing a lot of damage (with a build consisting of only 2 offensive items she will get an ADC down to 30% hp before that ADC can even move again).

The flash wont help. She will still get to the ADC, and still nearly kill him. And as explained above, if you try to kill her, her team will kill you. Its a lose-lose situation. Vi isnt broken, no, but she is extremely antifun to play against. She is the worst designed champion. Playing against her as the ADC once is worse than playing against teemo top as a melee carry 100 times in a row.