Talk:Udyr/@comment-9686801-20130628034115/@comment-7803293-20130628134550

People thinking that tiger and phoenix are mutually exclusive have understood nothing in Udyr. As Phoenix udyr, an early point (lv6 or so) in tiger is actually the best option , because tiger's dot can be charged long in advance before you gank , and because bonus AS from tiger even at level 1 is sufficient to considerably increase your phoenix DPS. Not to mention that a point in Tiger is a must have to backdoor a tower since the AS it gives is the only anti-tower steroid he could ge.

True Phoenix udyr players (, even though a udyr player should always focus on ADAPTING ,) won't wait till lv 15 to rank up one point in Tiger, just as ture udyr players should NOT max Bear , but should max Tiger instead , because everyone knows that MS has a cap that is easily broken by udyr with Celerity + furror /alcarity + lv3 Bear + ghost maybe , so levelling bear further is of very few use compared to the dps and the tower-backdooring power that 70% as could provide. Indeed, one cant argue that Bear is hands down the least evolving stance with the levels in it : Ms buff is weak in intensity , weak in duation ( that extra duration is even completely useless with CDR ) , and the stun duration does not even increase. People try to forget, furthermore , that bear does NO additional damage when it stuns.

I hope i somewhat answered your question, and you can be sure that waiting till lv 15 to rank up tiger , and ranking max bear instead of tiger , are two common but huge mistakes. And lack of AoE in Tiger build is a non-sense : indeed, a tiger build should , the same way , incorporate an early point in phoenix ( to depush fastly ) , and should also max phoenix last instead of bear. Tiger is more about early-game domination, Top-lane , and counterjungling , while Phoenix is more about mixed damage , splitpushing , and teamfight presence. However, Gauntlet is Core on both Udyrs , and Statikk shiv is extremely good on both as well , which compensates easily for the "lack" of AoE.

Last note : if you intend to play tiger udyr in the jungle, it IS viable since those days , the bigger creep of a camp has 90% of the camp's HP. Moreover, new madred's is perfecty fine (but i dont really advise to evolve into wriggle though). People thinking tiger cleans way slower than phoenix are wrong. Not to mention the sustain of Tiger udyr is also better since he relies more on auto-attacks, and as such , benefits more from turtle's lifesteal. Your only two offensives items should be Muramana and Black Cleaver : Muraman stacks very fast, synergizes with Iceborn gauntlet (which is still core) , and synegisez godlikely with Black cleaver. Indeed, the whole point of a properly-understood Tiger Udyr is to apply five BC procs in a single auto-attack : The autoattack itself , the bonus 15% AD , the muramana damage , and Tiger's Dot will make so that Udyr is the fastest BC stacker in the game (single-target speaking). Add on more stack per AA if you buy Bork, but that should rarely be the case , as an udyr with three offensive items is certainly not in a normal game.