User talk:Emptylord

Averdrian
Got your Message clearly bro. I will look up on Averidan on next week, due to alot of stuff is coming this weekend as well as my control test on math coming on Monday.

This is just an idea I came up with, that MOBA probably did not use yet. (This would've gone to my upcoming champion who uttilize on time, but I guess it would work well with Averidan)

Since Riot doesn't like Mana Burn/Drain due to manaless champs

It's a CC effect that works similar as Silence, but has power and weakess:

Delay: When afflicted target gets hit, their spell will be on cooldown for a duration (let say 3 seconds):


 * Refreshed abilities will be on cooldown for a duration (Refreshed -> 3 seconds)


 * Abilities that is on x-seconds cooldown, will gain increased cooldown for a duration. (x seconds -> x+3 seconds)

+ works well when unused abilities is both refreshed and is on CD.

- Can't interrupt channel abilities, but it will delay it.

Cooldown Freeze: When target got one of his ability on cooldown (let say CD timer is 10 seconds left before it can be used again), CD Freeze will freeze the CD timer for a duration. After CD freeze is over, the 10 second cooldown on CD timer can continue. This however won't work well when target's all abilites is refreshed, but when used when affected by CD Freeze, the cooldown of used ability will be frozen like usual.

+ long duration ( 3/4/5/6/7 seconds)

- won't work on refreshed abilities.

Champion need these two CC effect to be really dangerous. You Delay targets abilities, and cast CDF on that delayed target, so the target won't be able to use his abilities for a long duration.

This can work well for one of Averidans ability, which will have a follow up spell as well (lets take E as an example):

(E1: deals Aoe damage, if hitting an enemy champion, it will delay targets abilities for a duration, while Averidan will get a follow up spell.)

(E2: freeze one target's CD for a long duration.)

Let me know what do you think?

Caporai (talk) 03:10, September 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * On my champion suggestion, Odyssey, his skill is called "Concussive Shot". The original effect froze cooldowns for 5.5 seconds (abilities already on cool down, and abilities that go on cool down while the target is concust. Ive ha threads on the forums asking about it, and I released that champion suggestion; people either loved or hated it. But I've now charged it because someone described how fun it would be to me really well. Now Odyssey's skill "silences the target for 1 second every time they cast an ability." (5 second Debuff still)Emptylord (talk) 21:46, September 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * That revamp does sound fun, except that it toasts anything that requires channeling (e.g. ). Just making sure that part is known.   21:41, September 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I made the distinction that an ability must be successfully cast before the silence incurs. Channelled abilities don't cancel themselves. Emptylord (talk) 21:50, September 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not overly a fan of "Concussion", "delayed silence" and such on Averdrian. Or maybe that's just because of how I've currently envisioned Averdrian, but I'm willing to throw out all my existing ideas if necessary. ;) Emptylord (talk) 21:50, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Strange Redirecting
Did you know you've got a redirect page if someone enters Emptylord in the Search-Bar? Strange enough, I just got redirect to my own profile page from it... Oo even if the redirect seems perfectly fine... --- Melcor (talk) 15:35, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Apparently I'm a top search request, so I put in the redirect. I didn't realize the redirect didn't work. O_o Emptylord (talk) 15:48, May 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, it seems that the redirect itsself to a userpage is broken. It definitely leads me to your page in terms of URL, but it shows my data, profile picture etc.. However, if I click on oneof the other tabs (e.g. Blog and Message Wall), it directs me to the correct place (and shows your Correct profile information). So, everyrthing's... half-fine. ;) --- Melcor (talk)

Alias
Pardon for asking, but do you go as 3mptylord as well?

ClariS (talk) 02:28, May 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * It is my preferred name, yes. I created "Emptylord" when I was younger and didn't realize each Wikia used the same log-in; when it told me "3mptylord was taken" I didn't realize it meant by me. I've come too far with Emptylord to switch now. I contacted support about name-changing and there isn't one - so 3mptylord is just something I occasionally log-in to by accident. Anywhere else on the internet you'll see me as "3mptylord". :)

Emptylord (talk) 07:47, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

Ability Sandbox
Looking at your Ability Sanbox, I have only two thoughts: Amazing as always and YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS! , - Melcor (talk) 22:44, June 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks! ^_^ Haha, that wasn't actually an intentional reference but I'm definitely going to use it now! Jokes: "I must construct additional pylons.", or if I use a stock system (like seeds), maybe give him a PEARL AI-style voice that says "You have additional pylons". I was going to steal a line from Dota and have the character say "And the atmosphere's electric!" upon scoring first blood. ;)
 * I'm going to start modelling soon for my portfolio (I don't really have much to say for myself at the moment). My first project will be Heartseeker Teemo. ^_^Emptylord (talk) 23:02, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

Is it intented that you can only edit the first message on your talkpage and no section else? Seems very akward to me... might be I am the only with this problem though. Tried deleting cache (purging) and simply reloading, no effects...Melcor (talk) 20:14, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

PS: Now that I 've created a new post it put it on my "old last" post and I can edit again. These strange things code somtimes do... Melcor (talk) 20:19, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

Codename Codeuser: I'm in your code, stealin' your code, codely
Hey, Empty. I have a question. You ever thought about giving out the code you use on this wiki to others? I'm sure there's many a game out there that could use a face lift here and thar.

I ask 'cause there's a few gaming wikis I wouldn't mind seeing prettied up. --Tiffy (talk) 19:32, June 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Which code specifically? ;) Emptylord (talk) 19:39, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

Much of the template code for things like infoboxes and easily sortable/interchangeable menus.

--Tiffy (talk) 01:59, June 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if you're giving me credit for someone else's work? While yes, I did some design-related coding - I've not really done any heavy coding. Interchangable menus? Emptylord (talk) 16:17, June 30, 2013 (UTC)

Solo Baron Cass
Nice, I haven't tried Baron solo with an AP yet. Only started cause I started doing custom bot matches to try full builds and thought of trying it. Started with Skarner, 1st character I really liked using as jungle, and went from there. Main reason I started doing the custom bot matches for full builds is because my current computer runs normals kinda slowly; haven't even tried a ranked match. Thanks for the pic btw, I really like Cass, have her on my lower lvl account (won several ARAM's and a normal easily with her).

J.R. Imp (talk) 02:45, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Sylphie
Hi there. I was wondering if you were further along on that bug Sylphie drawing?

Also, I've made a post of Sylphie on the official LoL forums. Could you please comment on Sylphie's revised/toned-down kit?

Nhan-Fiction (talk) 22:37, July 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * I did create a more bug-like version, although I wasn't totally happy it suited the character and I sort of forgot about it for a month or three. I don't know of this link will work, but here. It's a hybrid between an image I found online and Babytooth from Guardians. I don't think it suits Sylphie though. I need to work on a butterfly anthro but there no existing samples to be inspired by, everyone seems to love moths.
 * I'll take a gander at the new kit. Emptylord (talk) 02:12, July 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah, truth be told, I think you were on the right track with what you doodled before. I think your idea of making her like more bug-like still applies, but I still think she should be "pretty."


 * I look forward to your feedback about her new(ish) design on the forum.


 * Nhan-Fiction (talk) 02:40, July 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Take five. Emptylord (talk) 17:11, July 18, 2013 (UTC)

Re: Videos
The way I do it is I download the videos from Riot's beta page and then convert them to ogv using http://video.online-convert.com/convert-to-ogg. Then you just upload the converted file using Special:Upload. You can have multiple conversions going at the same time so you don't have to wait for each file to convert to start another. 00:59, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Random question or two
Hey, 3mpty? I'm just dropping by to ask a question or two. Maybe more, but I'm a bit curious by nature.
 * 1) What's your next custom champion concept gonna be? I was wondering if we could make a team effort and work at one in the near future.
 * 2) I'm working on a champion that is a technomancer, with the kit of a fighter. I'm wondering if his nemesis should be some kind of Void beast or 'the last of a kind' cyborg monster? What do you think?
 * 3) Where did you get the Battlecast Kog'Maw skin? I know it's a custom skin, but I instantly fell in love with the splash art. :3

Eager to read your replies. Commander Marko (talk) 23:13, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Ohaii,


 * 1) I keep meaning to work on Titania, the Regent of the Glade, but I'm all out of whimsy for the time being. To be honest, I'd be surprised if I ever come up with someone as playful as Puck ever again - his kit was sort of once-in-a-blue-moon kind of inspiration. I did get an idea to do a tattoo-themed champion (you may have noticed "Scar, the Painted Mage" in my table of contents) - but I lost my drive and haven't really done anything about it. I need to rename some of my "stolen name" champions, such as Oberon, Puck and Abaddon. Simply so I can be rid of claims that I stole them. Jolt, the Lightning Thief, needs finishing to - although it was very nearly done last time I took a gander.
 * 2) A collaboration would be fun. I'm definitely up for it.
 * 3) Robots versus a Technomacer - seems a bit of an unfair fight. Like sending Wolverine against Magneto. ;) I think I would avoid making his rival a void beast, simply because it overlaps with Kha'Zix's story too much. I was inspired a while back to create a champion who is aligned with Viktor implicitly - that is, to say, an acolyte/augmented denizen of Voloran. The initial kit was inspired by EV from Dungeon Defenders, although I scrapped it when I couldn't create a character that was distinct enough from Orianna (personally/visually, that is). Although I don't think a technomancer suits either Jayce or Viktor's side, so I don't know why I'm still talking.
 * 4) If you need any inspiration for the technomancer, I've got Quantum the Holomancer and (from way back in the day Quantum the Command Droid (although I recycled almost all the mechanics on the Command Droid into other champions, including his name).
 * 5) It's just some artwork I ripped off of Leaguecraft. I don't know if there's actually a custom skin, although we'll be getting a real skin at some point in the future. ;)

Emptylord (talk) 00:40, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Well, shall we continue the conversation? So:
 * 1) Those are interesting concepts, if you require any help revamping them or an idea for a kit, feel free to ask. I have a whole notebook full of unused abilities and character concpets.
 * 2) If we could get to work on a collaboration, mind if we schedule it somewhere near mid-August? I'm going on vacation in about a week, and I may be leaving lots of my scrapbooks and my laptop. As for an idea, I'm thinking of a 'beastmaster', technically someone that 'will fuel his monstrous pet'. I believe a fellow contributor gave me the idea of a lantern-bearer, months before Thresh came out.
 * 3) I'm almost done with the technomancer champion, according to his lore, 'his hatred for magic has driven his research to develop pure technology, nothing magical included'. No, he's not mad or anything. :D I think it would be fair if he was pinned up against a cybernetic beast, actually. 'One that he saved long ago'. A bit too much spoilers, one might say. :P
 * 4) I have a proper look for him already, I could send you a sketch once I am done. An armored battle suit with an interesting staff that bears resemblance to a one-sided axe. Cleave of the axe is generated by lasers, etc. However, do you know any good artists that could draw custom champions's splash art similar to how Riot does it?
 * 5) I heard that the skin was going to be released near the end of 2013. I'm thinking of buying it cause Kog Mid is one of the most interesting things in League now. :D

Commander Marko (talk) 10:14, July 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * 1) If I had to get any help for an unfinished idea, it would be Nex the Gravesworn. I'm seriously struggling to create a kit. ^_^
 * 2) A beastmaster? Sounds interesting. I can already imagine many mechanics for controlling/utilizing a pet.
 * 3) I don't know any artists, no. The only art I've ever used is artwork created myself. ;) Emptylord (talk) 13:08, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Champion info
[] What is happening with the advent of rangetype and alttype ? I've missed the discussion, if any. --BryghtShadow 13:31, July 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, officially, champions only have one tag now. I updated all the champions, but decided that removing Melee/Ranged might confuse some people. So I created it as a separate variable so it can be hidden by editing the template, if so desired. With the upcoming removal of the Ability Details pages, I also took the liberty of adding alttype to list other things the champions can do (again, as a separate variable so it can easily be hidden if so desired). Emptylord (talk) 13:46, July 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * I see. --BryghtShadow 15:19, July 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * Maybe the 2nd official tag should be combined with the primary tag field. Like Mage/Assassin as one field. Then we could have the non-official tags separate from the official ones. IONDragonX (talk) 03:42, August 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * I proposed that on Kewhatsits talk page. Although they are only combined now because someone decided to add the official ones to the tag I reserved for the unofficial ones (alttype was suppose to be for unofficial tags). Emptylord (talk) 04:15, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Just saw your reply on his post. I'm getting email notifications all backwards. Emptylord (talk) 13:21, August 1, 2013 (UTC)

Okay. I put all the rangetype back and the official tags. All other tags are commented out right now. There's an error for the champs who are both Melee and Ranged. I am still hoping that you hide the rangetype tag from the other tags, because info overload. It would be better to list it next to the actual units of range. (eg Melee reach 125 and Range 550)IONDragonX (talk) 17:38, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Rangetype is now listed next to "Range", although templates take a while to update.Emptylord (talk) 17:54, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sweet. However, the dual melee/ranged champs (Elise, Jayce, Nidalee, Kayle) should probably get a little script or something to clean up that part. Elise ATM has 550 (Melee, Ranged) in her box. It would be more clear if it said 125 (Melee) new line 550 (Ranged).
 * Tags: How about the Primary being labeled "Riot tags" for the one or two from them? (eg Riot tags: Mage, Assassin space Secondary: Support)IONDragonX (talk) 19:01, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Duo-range champions are only one by default. Their skills described the conditions of their attack range change, it does not need to be stated in the infobox. Emptylord (talk) 19:48, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * In any event, there isn't enough room for both.Emptylord (talk) 19:51, August 1, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, that's that. What about the tags suggestion that I had?IONDragonX (talk) 19:53, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think for the time being we'll just ignore unofficial tags. While it pains me that I can't tell people that Thresh is an amazing "Marksman", there's little point in adding unofficial tags while champions like Xerath and Malzahar are tagged as "assassins". People will just start tagging Lux and Kog'Maw as assassins and it'll all get very messy. Emptylord (talk) 19:57, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, okay. I still think that "Riot tags" would be easily understood. The secondary tags could be "Wiki tags" or something.IONDragonX (talk) 20:03, August 1, 2013 (UTC)

Ability Details
Hope you get this soon, but I still have an issue with the ability detail section, mainly, the on-hit effect section. As I wrote before that I think has still gone unnoticed, I think it would just make more sense to hide the 'apply on-hit effects' line when it does not apply on-hit effects since most abilities don't apply them.

ClariS (talk) 23:37, July 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. Emptylord (talk) 00:12, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * The "Spell Effects" also needs to be hidden when it is null value. It makes no sense on almost all the champion passives, heals, steroids, etc.IONDragonX (talk) 22:13, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * It is hidden by putting in the word "hide". Emptylord (talk) 23:05, August 1, 2013 (UTC)

Any chance that I can still make Ability Frames the way that I was? Hypercarrot is taking my work down and rewording my stuff. I try to make the description fields as close to Riot as possible, by using their web site. A very small amount of it is flavor text and should be kept, or at least hinted at, but noooooo its got to be reworded into grognard-speak. Also, what REALLY pisses me off is that Hypercarrot is undoing the leveling fields that I set up, nice and pretty. I understand that the numeric data I put there sometimes is static across all ranks but I AM MAKING IT OVER-ALL EASIER TO READ BY DOING SO. All of that information is valid but clutters up the description box too much.
 * I've never really liked having all the statistics in-line. I always preferred having radius in the right column. However, as Hypercarrot said on your profile, that was NeonSpotlight's call (the admin). I can't veto the admin, sorry. ^_^ Emptylord (talk) 13:02, August 5, 2013 (UTC)

" (Undid revision 1867022 by IONDragonX (talk) I'm sorry, but that looks disgusting. )" What? Why? That's the actual color assigned to energy in the "ability scaling" template. I looked it up.
 * I actually had two reasons for undoing - the primary one was because that's the sort of thing that should be in the template, simply because of how hard that was to undo. It's a simple loop to catch the cost-type and then color it. The second was personal detest. However, in an attempt to be a little less tyrannical - I've have left some examples of your idea in tact (and labelled them appropriately).I personally think ability scaling colors should be reserved for ability scalings, though. Emptylord (talk) 04:44, August 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * I just made a post in the /ability details but I'll copy it here. I didn't want to change the template because that would have affected the live pages. " Well, I was the one that did the colored costs because the ability scaling template has those colored for ease of recognition. I'll admit that I wanted the word mana to be (#bbf) the 'same blue' as the headline letters and I wanted (#f4a460) a browner yellow for energy so it would not clash so much. However, I was going with the color codes that were already officially recognized. I don't know why the energy and armor stats are the same color in there, but they are. Here's the colors I actually wanted : mana = #bbf energy = #f4a460 health = #dc143c fury/ferocity/heat = #b22222 " I'm going to make tabbers on those three pages you set aside, you'll see that the better colors make a great difference.IONDragonX (talk) 13:00, August 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well I do not mean to tell you to actually update the template pages - as you said: it will interfere with live. But you should not update hundreds of articles with temporary content, because someone's only going to have to delete it all to update the template. I'm still not convince any colour will change my opinion, but I shall sit back. Emptylord (talk) 13:17, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

Thresh and Marksman
Emptylord, why is that you have Thresh as a Marksman. I checked the history and you even reverted someone's edit to remove it, so I want to hear it from you why you believe strongly that he is a Marksman.

And to quickly say, he not's an auto-attacking champion. He has crap AD and AS scaling and his only incentive to build AD is something that heavily discourage him to auto-attack in quick successions. Most of damage comes from his abilities.

ClariS (talk) 05:42, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Because Marksman is one of his common build paths. I personally have a high winrate with him in ranked, including my first/only ranked pentakill. He is an excellent marksman, and is as much a marksman as champions like Urgot, Jayce or Teemo. Most of his damage comes from Flay. The once per 10 second burst is his bread and butter, similar to Twitch's Expunge, and he can easily 2-shot enemy squishes mid game. 10 seconds of not attacking is actually easy to charge at all stages of the game, you'd be surprised. But he also does 0-200+ on-hit magic damage even without charging assuming you have a standard build/amount of souls. This surpasses all other on-hit magic damage champions (bar Kog in the right circumstances). People who say that his Flay discourages autoattacking don't understand its minimum damage component. ^_^
 * P.S. It was removed because said person was removing all my "unofficial" tags because he wasn't aware I was merging the Ability Details/Overview pag. Emptylord (talk) 13:20, August 1, 2013 (UTC)

And this is why I will probably hate the unofficial tags. But regardless, just because a build work doesn't make him an Marskmen. I can build a tank and use her to begin teamfights, but that doesn't make her a tank.

But back to Thresh, I don't mind if he get's labeled as a Fighter because he can keep up a good amount of damage because of his Flay's passive, but his overall style of gameplay is nothing that of a Marksman who depends on their auto-attacks. Thresh could throw exactly no auto-attack in an entire teamfight and still be extremly useful because his kit is just so good by itself.

I can't explain for Urgot but Teemo make sense as a marksman as most of his damage comes while auto-attacking. If he wishes to help in a teamfight, he will be auto-attacking a lot. And for Jayce, that's a secondary thing that I assumed you placed yourself, not Riot. If not you, someone in the community did that.

ClariS (talk) 13:09, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * His overall style of gameplay depends on what you build. If you build ADC, then he depends on his autoattacks as much as any other marksman. An ADC Thresh who throws exactly no auto-attacks in an entire teamfight is a waste of space - even if he does manage to hook someone.
 * Secondary tags are not all complimentary to the primary tag. For example, Kog'Maw's secondary tag is a mage - which refers to an "alternate primary" tag (so to speak). When I tagged him as a marksman I did not mean you build him full tank and autoattack people... I meant you build him Statikk Shiv, Infinity Edge and Bloodthirster and instakill the enemy carry.
 * Also, the secondary tags are official. All unofficial secondary tags have been commented out.Emptylord (talk)

Banner of Command Page
Hey Emptylord. I want you to change the Banner of Command section call Passive Gold Value. I'm trying to keep actual effectiveness of an effect/stat from gold value as those two things are different and your section doesn't help the cause when you are completely comparing the effectiveness of the passive and then giving it a gold value.

So... Gold Value =/= actual effectiveness. I hope you understand my reasoning and I hope you change it so it doesn't include the gold vales.

On a side note, I should remove the movement speed gold value as it goes against my idea.

ClariS (talk) 12:56, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Feel free to remove the gold values, although they were only ever relative gold values based on having prerequisites (400 AP, for example). Emptylord (talk) 13:03, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

"Passive" to "Innate"
Since every champion's innate is now the "I" ability instead of "P", with the ability details overhaul underway, should we replace each instance of the word "passive" with "innate" (in the case of each champions innate ability)? Jacktheplumber (talk) 15:24, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Innate, Basic and Ultimate are archetypes. Most innates are still passive abilities, with respect to passive, toggled, activated, etc. Only use "innate" if you would use the word "basic" in a basic ability. Emptylord (talk) 15:43, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

Ability Details and Liandry's Torment
Not to beat a dead horse, but I really think you should consider adding a section for under spell effects, see here for reasons. Long story short, the damage dealt by Liandry's varies on almost every ability, and isn't just a dichotomy between 6% and 12%. As the calculations are finicky, it's best we list them in the Ability Details section, which is supposed to provide such information anyway, rather than leave it to the players to figure it out themselves. --Willbachbakal (talk) 22:44, August 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * I have considered it and decided against it, simply because it's too finicky. Swain's Nevermove deals 2%, 4% and 4% - because the target isn't impaired when the damage is dealt, so the snare only comes into effect afterwards. However, if Swain has already placed Decrepify on the target, Nevermove will deal 4%, 4% and 4% - because the target is impaired from another source. Liandry's behaves differently depending on the sequence of abilities (both your own and other peoples, Liandry's will even deal double damage against Varus' Q) and even behaves differently based on items. There is no clean cut "this ability does this" and "this ability does that". Information about Liandry's should be on Liandry's page. Simply saying "Applies spell effects" is enough. Emptylord (talk) 23:37, August 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's not exactly what I'm saying, though. What I want is for Liandry's damage to be calculated for the ability cast, and that ability only, without taking into account passives, items or other spell effects. That way, it'd simplify things a lot more, and leave all the nitty-gritty down to calculations based on the ability's numbers themselves. So when calculating the damage for, it should completely ignore the potential damage enhancement from , and vice versa. --Willbachbakal (talk) 00:23, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * But all abilities deal 2% of the target's current health on-cast if you don't factor other sources, because no champion's movement will be impaired when you hit them. The only thing that varies between abilities are the second and third tick of Liandry's damage. Blitzcrank's ultimate's crowd control duration is so short she will deal 2-2-2; whereas Swain deals 2-4-4. However, the fact of the matter remains that it is circumstantial. Telling players "Nevermore WILL deal 2-4-4% of the target's current health" is a lie in 9/10 circumstances, because even Tenacity will affect it. It's misinforming. Spellvamp and Rylai's are only listed because they are consistent/constant; whether or not an on-hit ability is ranged or melee is also consistent. But I'm just the designer - you should really take this up with someone higher up. Emptylord (talk) 01:07, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * That is incorrect. Did you even read the item page? Liandry's ticks for 0.5% of the target's current health every 0.5 seconds after spell damage has been dealt, meaning it factors in CC right from the start. The item has six ticks of damage in total. As I said a few times above, Tenacity is irrelevant because it is not part of the ability itself. Tenacity affects the duration of slow as well. It's not misinforming, it's offering a base that players could use for factoring in tenacity and extra CC themselves. I've dropped a message on NeonSpotlight's page, but I really suggest you take a fresh look at this again. --Willbachbakal (talk) 07:28, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * I listed per second damage because I could not be bothered to write 6 ticks of damage, the functionality (as I understood it) would still be the same. However, I did not realize that the item had been update to factor its damage instantly. At some point in the season (or even the PBE), the first tick of damage was calculated based on whether you were impaired when the spell hit (and to be honest, the article says nothing to the contrary).
 * However, if they truly have improved the consistency so that the damage is doubled instantly - that's more of a reason not to include it. Players can simply see whether or not the ability applies crowd control. But I disagree with you - Tenacity is not irrelevant. I still think that Liandry's is too circumstantial for promise players anything. Emptylord (talk) 11:31, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Look, this is starting to turn sour and will get worse if we continue butting our heads like this. Please at least give me a chance to show my implementation, then we can discuss how it can be improved. --Willbachbakal (talk) 01:22, August 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Please continue this discussion where everyone else has been discussing their ideas: Ability Details. I really don't know why you're discussing this in private when there are a lot of people who have been putting a lot of hard work into this. Also, please do not update the mainspace articles with unfinished content (i.e. Lux, Lucian and Master Yi) - your idea is just as unfinished as mine and you can use the Ability Details pages like everyone else has for experimenting. Emptylord (talk) 01:35, August 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * I posted my suggestion on the forum relevant to the whole template, which nobody responded to. The content I implemented was clean and, unlike your current project, poses no technical issues. Additionally, it was greenlighted by an administrator, which you yourself saw. Speaking of hard work done, you forgot that I contributed significantly to this project as well. --Willbachbakal (talk) 01:39, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

Well, now...
I haven't checked in for quite a time, as Skyrim called me... but now that I've come back, the most urgent need I had was looking up what you mastermind had thought of in my absence... however, alleviating this very urge was not possible, as I could not access your blog. General problem or is it just me? Or is it even you, having blown the capacity of the Wiki, huh? Melcor (talk) 22:47, August 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, I wouldn't be surprised if I've broken Wikia. All my blogs are in my Contents except User blog:Emptylord/Theorycrafting - Advanced Abilities/Resource Gating and User blog:Emptylord/Where's the lore going?, which are new today. If my homepage isn't working either: Emptylord (talk) 23:32, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

Moving Articles
send me a message if there is any problem or why you can'y do ths for me, ArchivisteQc (talk) 02:57, August 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm just a regular user like you - I have no power to create blog posts on your behalf. I just know how to do it. You look like you've managed it all fine. ^_^ Emptylord (talk) 03:08, August 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Since saying that, I have since gained moderator powers. Mwuahahahaha >:). No really, next time I'll be more useful. ^_^ Emptylord (talk) 05:05, August 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * My greatest congratulations on that, if I am allowed to throw a word in. Melcor (talk) 20:42, August 12, 2013 (UTC)

Ability Template Documentation
I've been playing a bit with your template on my custom champion blogs, and it's amazingly versatile. However, currently it's lacking documentation. With your permission, I'd like to add it, or at least come up with the text.

On that note, wouldn't it be better to make your template official? It's currently being used by several users in the Ability Details project, and bar one controversial addition (mine) has most of its features approved. --Willbachbakal (talk) 22:00, August 12, 2013 (UTC)

EDIT: This may be a bit late in the process, but wouldn't the "targeting" field be more appropriately renamed as "type"? It's used more as a description for an ability's effects in general, including for passives. --Willbachbakal (talk) 22:08, August 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * Feel free to create a documentation page. I've never created one before, so I wouldn't know where to begin anyway.
 * My template is "official", so to speak. It's only still using my namespace because the name conflicts with the existing template (both are called Ability Details). Once all these articles are complete, the old template will be replaced with mine. The whole point of Ability Details was simply to update all the information so it could go live. It wasn't really intended to have any further changes.
 * It was only more recently that it became a "type" field, simply because some of our contributors were simply copy-and-pasting the existing Ability Details description rather than creating an appropriate "targeting" description (as you will see of champions like Kog'Maw, which I did). Emptylord (talk) 22:19, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Also, I took a look at the Lux and Kog'Maw articles you made. The specification of damage modifiers to Liandry's is good and clean, and has the benefit of always being true. However (though this may be a matter of taste) I think there are a couple of issues with this:


 * Indicating the damage modifier does not give an accurate idea of how effective Liandry's can be on the spell. To see what I mean, take a look at Malzahar's article: two of his basic abilities deal huge amounts of damage through Liandry's despite not applying CC. Viewers going through the info wouldn't be able to see this.
 * Related to the above, but it doesn't actually say how much damage Liandry's can deal as a baseline, nor does it specify the duration (which is variable per ability yet immutable, save for usage of ). With Lux or Kog it's okay, but with champions like Malz, Teemo or Cassiopeia it's quite the omission.
 * Whereas users like us, who are familiar with the distinction between on-hit effects and spell effects, can guess whether or not a spell applies Liandry's (and even then, that's not always the case), specifying only the damage amplification on abilities that inflict CC can be misleading. With the aforementioned issues, it feels almost like a deliberate lack of documentation.


 * This might feel like salting an open wound (and I apologize), but I realize I haven't been too precise on my implementation of my own version of Liandry's. Essentially, the numbers I'm adding onto each ability are a baseline, calculated upon the following assumptions:


 * The Liandry's debuff isn't prematurely removed through Cleanse (can be said for any DoT).
 * The target has 0 Tenacity and 0 magic resistance (which is true for pretty much any damage/CC indication on the ability itself).
 * The caster is using this ability only, without any overlap with other potential abilities or passives (including the ones in the champion's own kit) that apply CC or damage amplification.
 * The caster has no items that passively apply CC, and is not using an item active that applies CC or damage amplification to the target.


 * Which, in the end, isn't that demanding a set of assumptions, especially if you look at effects such as spell vamp, which itself is conditional upon the spell cast,, Grievious Wounds, and healing enhancement from abilities, more in total than even for Liandry's damage. I could add a tooltip or expandable note (a la TVTropes) that'd specify that the effect's damage is modifiable depending on additional crowd control (which isn't always the case) and Tenacity (also not always the case). Would that work? --Willbachbakal (talk) 23:08, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * If players don't know what spell effects are available then they can go to the spell effects article - that is the fundamental purpose of a wikipedia. You aren't suppose to just list everything on a single page.
 * Also, the reason I've always objected to your version of Liandry's was never been because it has counters (I'm aware that spell vamp has a counter, and that rylai's has a counter) - I object to it because your method fails to take into account synergies. Spellvamp falls into two categories: single-target or AOE; Rylais is single-target or otherwise; Frozen Mallet is melee or ranged; Liandry's has its basic damage or double damage. As with everything else: Liandry's should only state which rules it is following. Users can do the maths themselves if they particularly care - "current health" damage is hardly something you can plan.
 * For abilities like Malzahar's Malefic Visions, simply put it in the additional information section that it will trigger Liandry's X number of times (as it deals damage more frequently than once per second). Emptylord (talk) 23:31, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * To quote you in response to the crowd control information "it would probably be a better idea to move all these details to the [subject's] page and just list it on the Ability Details section without any additional info." That is exactly how I feel about Liandry's - there's simply too much information. (FYI - this is why I've abandoned the crowd control section - I came to the conclusion that we already have pages dedicated to crowd control). Emptylord (talk) 23:51, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Regarding synergies, I understand where you're coming from, but the issue I take with is that you're interpreting the damage from Liandry's as a purely binary thing - normal or double - whereas in fact it's much more complex than that. I also thought the same way you did at first when testing Liandry's in my own prototype, but soon found out it didn't cover anything, and failed to acknowledge the variance of the item's damage per ability, regardless of whether or not it applied crowd control. The CC sections you listed could have the entirety of their interactions listed on their page, and already do. If you wanted to list the details about Liandry's damage, you'd have to add hundreds of lines to its page specifying the duration of its effect for every ability, how much base damage amplification it receives, by how much CC reduction can mitigate the damage and by how much CC-inflicting items and other abilities increase its effects, which would make it the most overloaded page on the wiki. What I'm trying to get to is that Liandry's may follow a few well-defined rules, but more often than not its precise effectiveness is unique, and fully dependent on the item itself (unlike, say, lifesteal, which is either fully applied or not), hence the need for a per-ability description.


 * Also, I've added the documentation to the template. What do you think? --Willbachbakal (talk) 00:13, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * The documentation is very nice.Emptylord (talk) 00:29, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * <3 --Willbachbakal (talk) 00:34, August 13, 2013 (UTC)

When do you play on EUW?
'Sup, 3mpty. :D I got back from vacation 3 days ago, but I wasn't feeling good, but I am on the road to recovery. Fruits really help. xD

Anyways, here comes a tiny barrage of questions:

1. Do you have a 'finalized' kit for the Beastmaster concept we were going to work on? I thought of the design and lore of the character. The lore is still a work-in-progress, while the concept is some kind of hunter and his pet hound. The hound could be an eye-less beast, relying on hearing and smell to hunt its prey.

The passive should be like this: Vulpa (placeholder name for the pet) takes 10/12.5/15% reduced damage from all sources. That reduced damage is instead directed to x (the master).

The ult should have a name like Release the Hounds!, where x cuts the leash off of Vulpa and maybe two more mirages of it come to join the battle. Mirages can mimic spells like Zed's Shadows, but with reduced effect.

2. When do you play on the EUW servers? I finally got my provisional, Silver IV, sadly. And add the fact that I sat on a bullshit computer which crashed while I was in 2 ranked games in a row, I lost a couple of points. Don't mind my story, so when are you up to play? :D

-- 09:56, August 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * 1) I do not, sorry. I was waiting for you to return. It is unfortunate that Yorick's rework is turning him into what I'd imagine a "beast master" to be, but it's still a good domain to explore. I'm not sure if Tibbers, Orianna or Yorick's new kit is the best direction, or whether a new direction should be used - such as having a transform-like ultimate where the player assumes controls the pet while the "champion" channels (or enters stasis, depending on what counterplay we want). This would work with warg-style lore, where the champion has some innate power over his pet. I do not think that League of Legends has a suitable engine to have multiple "controlable" pets, though, beyond a swarm/pack similar to Elise (where they all follow a common target and are only cosmetically multiple pets).
 * 2) I have an odd sleep cycle - waking at around midday and going to sleep at around 5am (my friend with diagnosed-DSPD said that I probably also have DSPD, but I've never had it diagnosed). I play League/EUW at any time in between, although usually around midnight when my friends come online (playing ranked in the afternoon/evening if I play at all by myself). I just recently got promoted to Gold 4, after being trapped in a loop of winning 4 games in a row then losing 2 for days (W-L-L on every promotion). Emptylord (talk) 11:56, August 15, 2013 (UTC)

I was told that you replied by the messaging system, yet I see no response. The history doesn't show any differences either. Was there an error in posting? Or did you simply publish without changing anything? Emptylord (talk) 17:02, August 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Strange notification
 * Must have been a bug. I am not quite for sure, but maybe my little brother was derping around. :PCommander Marko (User talk:Commander Marko) 16:16, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

I created a user page: User:Emptylord/Collabs. You should be able to edit it. Emptylord (talk) 14:00, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Workspace
 * Anyways, I did some work on the workspace page, I added a kit and some other 'trivia', while removing the possibility of some mechanics, or rather leaving those that it seems plausible with the kit(s). Commander Marko (User talk:Commander Marko) 16:16, August 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * I moved the page to a new location (well, fixed a typo in the name). Apparently you were in the middle of editing. I moved your contribution and updated the link above to point to the correct location. Emptylord (talk) 16:21, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

Re:CC templates
Please don't use the Data prefix for these templates as it's going to be lumped with the champion data templates during organisation. I've moved them to Template:Root, Template:Entangle and Template:Snare for now and adjusted your ability template to work off that. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb1366976924/common/avatars/thumb/e/ee/1445357.png/20px-1445357.png LionsLight(talk) 14:35, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

A Quick Message
Moved to User talk:Emptylord/Collabs.

Demonic Syndra
Curiosity drives me to ask, but the skin you've posted several times as 'Demon Syndra'; you are aware that is not Syndra in any way, and the original picture has nothing to do with Syndra, correct? I assume you do, given that you linked to the original on DA. It just seems a bit insulting to the original artist to go around using their for something it's not/claiming it's something that it isn't. Just my own thoughts on the matter though; ultimately it matters not. Kouzen (talk) 03:35, August 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Art is in the interpretation - that is the point of art. I am fully aware it isn't Syndra, is just think Syndra would pull it off. If the artist requests that I take it down, I'll remove it. I used to be in the habit of asking, but no-one ever replied - so I just use the art under fair-use and link to the source. Emptylord (talk) 03:39, August 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * While I may not necessarily agree that the point of art as a whole is solely interpretation, to try and argue what is solely opinion-based would be a waste of both of our time.  Nonetheless, that makes sense and is fair enough on the subject of Demonic Syndra, so I'll not waste your time further with it. Kouzen (talk) 03:48, August 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * I was about to say that I accept your criticism and have removed it. Emptylord (talk) 03:49, August 26, 2013 (UTC)

Rengar Page
You reverted Ozuar's revert back into a previous vandalized edit, I assume by mistake.

Just letting you know.

アカリ, The Fist of Shadow (talk) 20:38, September 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Now I'm confused. I got an email notification that it had been changed by Ozuar, so I opened it up and it looked vandalized. The history said I was undoing from Ozuar to Emptylord. I didn't notice any intermediate edits. Unless the page was vandalized when I updated the PBE section and I somehow didn't notice Teemo's face. The rollback also said I changed Camouflage to UnseenPredator, etc. O_O Emptylord (talk) 20:40, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Moderator (late) congratz
Hey Emptylord, congratulations on becoming a moderator!

I've actually been meaning to ask you if you wanted to be a mod for a couple of months now (so I can nominate you), but I always assumed you wouldn't be very interested in combating vandalism as you are with adding new content and upgrading stuff.

Anyways your plans for champion pages are great and IMO PBE Status should be main space... keep up your superb work on the wiki. :)

— 23:07, September 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hehe, thanks. I would have accepted if nominated. I ended up nominating myself because I was being bombarded with help requests and I couldn't do anything about it. :P
 * Speaking of the champion rework, I should probably do some of that at some point. Heh. Emptylord (talk) 23:31, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Public Beta Signup
Hi! You probably have seen me around Vi's page (awesome job both you and NeonSpotlight! :D) and I noticed that you can redirect us to PBE's status or something like that.

I just wanted to ask if you could exaplain me how to know when PBE is open (and how to create an account since I see no "button"), because in the PBE Forum Riot states that last time that PBE let you create an account was January, but I seen somewhere else that was like, 1 - 2 months ago. :O

Thanks in advance! ;D

P.S Excuse me my errors, I am not english. T_T

Hugo Sotnas (talk) 14:16, September 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think that PBE sign-ups are down and I don't know when they will be available again. I'm sorry I can't be more helpful. Emptylord (talk) 22:16, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

Re: ex trivia
ya forgot sion's green hair ya pringus http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb1366976924/common/avatars/thumb/e/ee/1445357.png/20px-1445357.png LionsLight(talk) 06:23, September 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * I forget Sion even has hair. ;) Emptylord (talk) 19:04, September 24, 2013 (UTC)

Robbzlol learns to use titles on talk pages
Hello I have a question regardin your Yorick rework and that is will he get a lore update as well ? Robbzlol (talk) 05:38, September 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Don't mind me. I'm bored at work and figured I'd help Rob out by tossing a title on there. ;) --DocTanner (talk) 06:14, September 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Urrr, do you mean my User blog:Emptylord/Yorick spitballing or User blog:Emptylord/Xelnath's Yorick discussion? In either event, no. Xelnath's rework is focused on making his kit match the theme that players had imagined (which was the commander of the horde, not just a spambot). Emptylord (talk) 13:12, September 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the answer, btw i didnt notice the title thingy so thanks for that too :D Robbzlol (talk) 04:04, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

A talk note of my very own!
Hey.

So, I'm led to understand that you're kinda spear-heading the whole ability-detail switcharoo thing. If there's any way I can help, please let me know. I'd just dive in, but I'm not sure what template was settled on or how to use it. That said, if there's a champion who is done then I can use them as reference tool.

Anyway, let me know how I can help. --DocTanner (talk) 06:23, September 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Here's all the placeholder articles: Ability Details. All the information you should need is on that page. All help is welcome. :) Emptylord (talk) 13:12, September 28, 2013 (UTC)