Talk:Riven/@comment-5878487-20140915000252/@comment-4834593-20140918201859

Both are hard but doable, I'd say. The major thing is that you have to learn how to play your, and probably your opponent's, cooldowns to get damage down. Once you're in melee range, you're undoubtly stronger (thought Nidalee can be a problem since her rework), but you need to get there AND make sure they can't create a new gap without burning everything, and for the two this needs to be accomplished in different ways.

For Vayne, it's pretty easy. Dive on her and use what you have, but make sure you shield as much as you can of her damage. If the Vayne isn't retarded, she'll condemn you away. Then stay just outside of her autoattack range and go in the instant your cooldowns are back up, because they are lower than her condemn. You have a window of 4-5 seconds to damage her while she cannot condemn you. Make sure you've finished the trade before that. And, for the first engage, make sure she doesn't pin you to a wall. (oh and if she is retarded, it's even easier because she doesn't condemn you away)

For Nidalee, it works different, in a way - obviously, as her escape has a 5 second cooldown - but also a bit the same in that you need to go in in the right window. In her case, that is when she turns back to human form. You can do a fast, 2-3 second trade (EQW Q and then Q out, with the autoattacks) without her being able to turn back into cougar form and unload her burst. Of course, you do have to be careful to not get hit by her Q or W, because that resets her cougar cooldown and lets her unload her full cougar burst, and you don't want that, least of all while hunted. At levels 5-9 you can probably duel her even if she does have cougar form up though, simply because of how her ultimate works. I do have to say she was a LOT easier before the rework.