Talk:Elise/@comment-5494818-20121030134427/@comment-5067217-20121031161839

this may be true to a certain extent, but vayne had a FM, and while i may build vayne a tad differently from this player, ive dropped tons of apc&apos;s lategame with vayne. she has a damage ult and then she rolls into invis giving her a full second to do damage before they can retaliate. u build vayne like i do and before ult u have around 360AD with around 2 attack speed. ult and im rocking 400+ ad and hit twice per second. u roll for even more damage and u initiate the fight with 2 hits doing around 1200 damage and then u e them back and roll again and its over. the only apc&apos;s that truely can drop adc&apos;s with no problem are apc&apos;s with hardcore cc. viegar has his aoe stun box and karthus has his aoe of damage aswell. zyra, leblanc, oriana, ap rengar, etc. all these champs get completely dominated by lategame carries such as vayne and jayce(if u play him adc). early game adc&apos;s like graves and varus and mf get dumped on by early game ap&apos;s with runes becuz they just cant handle it. lategame with full build, i would gladly take my vayne into a fight with any apc u wanna throw at me. but my original point is that elise is NOT trash lategame. she still does some hella damage. if we get into a teamfight in baron, then i can focus and drop the adc while my bruiser and suport go for the tank and my adc drops their bruiser. we will win everytime with decent coordination. but you cant just rush squishy, high ap build items. yes a deathcap is amazing, but u need some decent hp and and maybe even spellvamp if u expect to last long in a lategame fight as any apc. this isnt new for elise.