Talk:Kassadin/@comment-168.8.249.173-20130320185534/@comment-37.128.215.240-20130322171710

Let's get right down to it...

1. Mana: My point was, you won't have the mana to sustain a permanent uptime of your E, meaning you'll likely be gimped against other opponents in all out engagements, and you'll be permanently incapable of farming "for free".

Don't pretend Kassadin has his end-game burst at the 1 minute mark, it takes several items and levels before his burst truly becomes the threat it is supposed to be, which he won't have until mid-game or so, where the Pulse-stacking becomes obsolete. He doesn't out-trade anyone with his regular burst, without items. All casters more or less share the same baseline damage with their skills, at the same levels. Sticking to Ahri, both Kassadin and Ahri will roughly deal 200~ damage with a full combo at level 3... However, once the cooldowns reset, Ahri will out-trade Kassadin immensely.

3 full spell rotations from Kassadin will send people home, you say?

Well, 3 full spell rotations from Ahri will accomplish the same.

As will 3 full spell rotations from Diana.

Or Kennen....

I could go on. I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to establish. Damage is roughly balanced and even around the board until you hit level 6 with every champ and add itemization to the calculation. However...

The interval between a full Kassadin spell rotation is long.

The interval between a full Ahri rotation is noticeably shorter...

2. Blue buff: Don't forget that you're enemy is very likely to throw in a spell or two of his own. I'm not suggesting that the blue buff removes the stacking mechanic, but that it diminishes its hold on your burst by shortening cooldowns, giving you tons of mana-regen, and with a bit of help from your opponent, let's you stack your E quite a lot faster than you'd normally be able to - which doesn't seem to make him an unstoppable killing machine after all.

3. Damage distribution: Indeed, AP ratios are important - but only once a noticeable amount of AP has been acquired. It's not that important a factor early game, which is the point in the game we're concerned with - after all, the Pulse-mechanic isn't there to hamper his late-game, only to weaken his early game.

You're right when you say the full combo is needed to kill someone; but it's not due to the added damage. It's the utility (the reduced movement speed) which allows you to land a few auto attacks which makes the difference. At that point in time, the Pulse will more or less be a glorified auto attack in damage - slightly ahead, if anything, but not by too much. The Q will still be the bulk of your burst.

4. Counter: Slightly hard to discuss, seeing as it's heavily dependant on which foe you're facing. If he has good timing, Kassadin can avoid up to 100% of the damage of skill shot champions(like Lux, who poses a very small threat to Kassa due to her slow and easily avoided skill shots). Champions with high sustained damage, like Cass or Ryze, do indeed pose a greater threat, but these champs also suffer from the sustained-tax; they need to hit with more spells in order to deal the same, or out-damage other champions. If they do, they'll win trades by a long shot, if they don't, they'll lose by a fair margin. These champions also lose engages due to Kassadin's silence and his ability to instantly disengage.

You need far more niche champions if you want to subject Kassadin to "heavy harassment while he stands in that 650 range". Fizz, for instance, would be a good counter - and he's melee. Kha'zix, also melee. Most of the good Kassadin counters happen to be melee champions, and being in the 650 zone is hard to avoid with these champs.

5. Unaltered burst: Wrong. Again, you're making the mistake of assuming Kassadin is in a late-game environment and taking it from there: We're not talking about Kassadin's late-game, the Pulse mechanic is there to tax his early-game. He only NEEDS 3 Nether Blade procs to deal the same amount of damage as other casters '''if he decides to level it up. '''If he doesn't take it at all, his burst remains unaltered. Late-game, yes! He'll need a few W procs to make up for the lost damage, early game, he won't have to.

Going with Ahri at level 12 (the point at which she has both her main damage abilities maxed), she'll have a full burst of 560 base damage, plus 146% AP.

Kassadin at level 12 will deal 560 baseline damage, plus 140% AP.

Both are almost completely identical in terms of damage and scaling. At level 12, I'd argue we've already exceeded "early-game" and are in the midst of "mid-game" - at which point, the limitation of his E-use already becomes unnecessary.

Push vs depush: "Giving him the ability to push is too overpowered" - is a cop out. It's not overpowered. Ahri's ganks are as good, if not better. Katarina has strong ganking potential as well. Kha'zix does too. Lux as well. Twisted Fate........ These are all champs with amazing ganking potential, and while they may not be JUST AS GOOD as Kassadin, their ganks remain some of the strongest ganks in the game.

And guess what...

They can all push in seconds. Ahri's ganks are considered some of the best in the game, because they usually ALWAYS end up in a kill. Twisted Fate is a close second, because of the unpredictable nature of his ulti.

The argument of "roaming" is, I'm sorry, pure bullshit.

Choices: How does the E save you from an invading enemy at level 1? Your combo doesn't guarantee a kill during a gank, you'll probably have to follow up... Your E is too unreliable in that case; you're going to need your Q in a leveled up state. How about a level 2-3 engagement? Both parties should deal the same amount of damage, yet you'll fall behind as soon as the second set of abilites have been released.

There is no choice. You'll kill your own lane-presence by picking the E, you'll be useless at level 1, you'll be fucked in 1v1 situations, and what do you gain? Arguably better or worse ganks.

Horrible trade-off.

Potential damage output: You seemed reasonable until this point, you just lost me here. Are you out of your mind!? Or are you, ONCE AGAIN, talking about late-game, the point in the game that is, ONCE AGAIN, completely unrelated to what we're talking about!?

Ahri's burst at level 6: 575 (+286% AP)

Kassadin's burst at level 6: 320 (+220% AP)

Second round of abilities added... (QWE for Ahri, Riftwalk with added stack and another Q for Kassadin)

Ahri's second burst after the first initial burst: 895 (+467% AP)

Kassadin's second burst after the first initial burst if he doesn't have the E: 600 (+370% AP)

Kassadin's second burst after the first initial burst with the E(for arguments sake): 680 (+440% AP)

As you can see, it's incomparable. Ahri's initial burst far exceeds Kassadin's. Kassadin is still miles behind during the second burst, even if he had a second E coming! He needs a total of 3 full spell rotations in order to make up for Ahri's ultimate.

Seriously, how the hell is that an argument in your favor? If anything, it proves my point. Not yours. His burst is fine, even if he's allowed a second burst. It doesn't come close to Ahri's full burst.