Talk:Graves/@comment-93.174.85.112-20111106032906

The only complaint I think is worth making about Graves is that he does too much of both AD Physical Caster and AD Carry. The nerf to his Q is warranted, as before you would basically eat a pantheon HSS in lane, then get two spears thrown at you as you try to walk away; although you can counter that by trading, True Grit makes it hard to make the trade equal, assuming its a carry + support lane in bottom; and though I myself have not had the pleasure of laning against the new nerfed Graves, I hear that it is now much easier to deal with.

At the same time, his E also gives him a short distance dash which appears to be longer than renektons, while also giving him a healthy 40% atk spd bonus at level 1 alone, scaling up to 80%. Mind that the only AS steroid higher than this is Tristana's, and its not a forward dash, though you could say its fair because its a nuke in its own.

W not only reduces vision and slows, but for some reason a smoke bomb does damage when it impacts near you. Mind that this skill is his most OP by far, but requires lots of skills or experience to use effectively. Yet there are no complaints about it.

R is just that; an easy to use skillshot that does a fuck tonne load of burst damage. My girlfriend, who has less than 20 games experience in this game, can aim that fucking skillshot with relatively little problem. It has a wealth of AD scaling and affects a cone behind the enemy as well as on it.

All in all Graves is not built like a carry; he is built like a physical caster. However, because his True Grit gives him a good measure of pretty much free tankiness, and his skills scale so well with bonus AD and having a pretty high AS steroid for the carry clean-up work, he does too much of both. He scales from the early to mid game far too easily compared to other carries, who take a significantly longer time or significantly more farm or significantly more SKILL to scale from early to mid so well, and by the late game he can transgress into a natural carry by just auto-attacking, then dashing out when someone gets too close, then Q and R then auto-attacking again, then dashing back in for that clean up quadra kill, assuming his team did their job properly. His dash IS on that sort of short cooldown. At lvl 15 its 14 seconds, with 1 auto-atk lowering cd by 1s. Now you dash out, and auto-atk 6 times in the next 4 seconds. your cd is now 4 seconds before dash.

I think Graves is a cool character with a cool design. All in all, what is really complainable about him is that scalability from early to mid to late, having the scaling of a physical caster in early to mid then of a carry from mid to late. He does TOO much of BOTH, and any real nerf should serve to steer him either ONE way, or the OTHER, or to do BOTH but not THAT effectively.

TLDR; Graves scaling too OP.