Talk:Item/@comment-26160516-20150409145539/@comment-2187820-20150503180443

@VICTORIUS XXIII So you are one of those fun specimens that think that latching onto a simple mistake and think that thast one mistake makes everything that person said worthless now. Here's the thing: you DID say rework, but that's not how items work in the game. When an item is made in the game, it is made with a specific purpose and use in mind. You don't just rework items the same way that you rework champions, because champions are much more flexible, and even they only tend to change one or two of their abilities when they are reworked. MOST of the time, their abilities are simply moved around and one is replaced, like zerath, or ashe, or ryze. Yes, these changes make a large difference, but the point is, they focus on making the champion better at what they already do, not changing them. VERY rarely will you get a complete rework like Sion, and even he still retained both his W, and his ult in the form of his passive, albite with an extra bell added to it.

Each role an item can carry, has SOME form of overlap with other items in the game. If you change an item too much, it will simply have that role filled by something else. Obviously every item has it's niche, such as hourglass and it's ability to make you untargetable being unique as far as items go, or face of the mountain being unique as far as the ability to execute minions goes. But, aside from the unique aspects of an item, all items have overlap with one another, and therein lies the problem with simply reworking them. If the unique aspect doesn't work, it doesn't work.

Eleisas Miracle, for example, would be useless in this meta, because they run a much tighter ship on gold gaining items now, and each gold gaining item has a specific path to build into, allowing for counterplay around it. And you can't make it a build path from any other items other than gold generation items, because then the passive it would bring would wield way too many stats, and would then up the amount of gold you have to spend to get it, which would ruin build paths for anyone trying to get it, and in the end be too much cost for what it would do. And even if it wasn't, you then have the issue of what stats it does have, are now permanent, and don't even take an item slot, so those extra stats that would probably end up at 2000 gold efficiency, give or take a few, would be perminant stats unable to be sold and added onto whatever your 6 items are, meaning EVERYONE who even remotely thinks the game will go on beyond 20 minutes and can make any use of the stats, would take it. And there should be no items in the game that is used by up to 10 people in the match, ever.

Force of Nature, WAY overpowered and replaced by Warmogs, and Spirit Visage was given extra MR to compensate for its removal. You have an item here, that fills two roles, health regen, and general tankiness in the form of MR, with basically just as good of stats as Warmogs and Spirit Visage, aside from not having the extra health (but regening more even without the extra health), and not having the shield. So taking away the shield, we have an item that effectively fills both those roles and is an amazing item for tanks in general, and an absolute must have for EVERY tank (every is key here, more on that in a moment) in the situation that they are against a team with an AP carry. In this meta they are trying to build, an item like that doesn't work. They want you to have options, and specific champions gravitating to specific items, not every single champ in a role getting the same item at all items. Same problem we run into with Eleisas up there. There is no reworking that changes that, because to rework it that much, you may as well simply make a new item to fill its spot, because it isn't the same item anymore.

Atma's Impaler, again, can't really be put back in, because it goes against the choices they made for the current meta. They want your build to dictate your playstyle, and for your to counter the other teams' build with your own, if you know the game well enough. Atma's Impaler goes completely against that, because it does nothing to anyone but you. It gave basically no tank stats. Didn't give enough attack for it to actually make a difference in teamfights, and didn't make any sense to buy it over other damage dealing items. Again, it comes down to it just not working well enough to be able to be worked into the meta. Either you have it cost too much and it isn't worth having, too little and everyone buys it, or say you leave it where it is. Then you have it give too little benefit for what it is trying to do. So then you up the attack damage it gains you. Say, to 2% instead of 1.5%. So, at 1.5, the passive would give you the effectiveness of a BF Sword at 3333 health. but at 2, that passive gives you a free BF Sword at 2500 health. So that's way too much. You'd have tanks with effectively a free AD top tier item almost every game by the end, for 2300 gold. And that assumes it stays the same price. And that says nothing about how Fighters/Bruisers are supposed to work. It would be a care item for, again EVERY one of them, which isn't how this meta should be working anymore, because you shouldn't have any item that is so needed for a role on every level that if you don't have it, it isn't something that you can possibly be without. And that is all totally discounting the critical hit chance part of it, because that isn't something I feel like looking into the math for.

Soul Shroud just plain doesn't fit into any meta. The way mana regen works has been changed since it was released and susequently removed, and the aura isn't useful enough to be worth 2250 gold. But let's say that it is a useful aura. When, exactly? 12 mana regen is more or less nothing. 10% cooldown reduction is nice, but you have to be in the arua at the time it goes on cooldown for that to matter. Adding onto the fact that anyone who really WANTS cooldown reduction AND mana regen, mages, won't be near enough to use it, because you are also getting that health, meaning you probably wanna be in the middle of the fight, like leona or thresh, and if they ARE close enough to make full use of that passiver aura, then they are in range of everyone else to just jump on, in which case an Aegis/Locket would have been a better choice because that helps them survive when someone DOES jump in on them, and that still gives you the health to live through you jumping into the middle like with the other item. So, you have an item that either has too large a radius and becomes an op support item because its radius is so large that it affects everyone at all times every teamfight, or you have an item that is the way it should be, but fills no useful role for your team aside from outside a fight when healers can heal people up slightly better, but has no use inside a fight aside from your specific health, which that role can be filled by other more useful items for your team. And again, you can't change everything the does, because then you may as well have just made a different item.

And lastly, Runic Bulwark, was removed because it was simply too cost efficient for what it did, and as stated above, litterally every game, you had both support, and jungle getting it every game, because it was that good. Instead, they chose to rework Locket to combine with the item, to make it a bit more of a support item rather than a jungle item. So, you already got your wish. They reworked it and put it back into the game, in the form of a combo of it, and another already in the game item.

And as for Mejais and Sword of the Occult, why would you want them removed? Because no one uses them? Because they fit a niche. People who want risk/reward can take them, and if they don't do well after buying them, then that was their risk. They are fun items that you use in custom games when you wanna fuck around a bit, not something in ranked unless you are SUPREMELY confident. The point is, unless you really know what you are doing, you won't buy them, aside from the first time you do, at which point you learn a good hard lesson about spending your gold wisely on things that don't get weaker if you make a tiny mistake.

And the guy wasn't correcting you. He said "Could have sworn that sword of the occult was removed" not saying, "Hey, dickface. Sword of the Occult isn't in the game anymore fuckface. God, get to know the game better". He simply said he thought it was gone, and made it painfully apparent that he could be wrong about that and hadn't checked to make sure he was right. No reason to get so defensive about someone just quickly answering to the best of their ability without having to go check other sources. It IS possible to make a statement without having to fact check everything, and it is NOT unreasonable to simply answer him with a nice "Oh, no, it is still in the game. I want it removed is because I feel it doesn't fit into the game anymore, same with Mejai's, which I feel is why people don't use it, and may be why you made the mistake of thinking it was removed, because you never see it. And Sword of the Divine was removed at one point as well. So that may have caused some confusion." Why is that so hard, compared to snapping like his words of thinking it may have been removed meant that your life was coming to an end soon?