Talk:Zeke's Harbinger/@comment-6281696-20150730202206/@comment-1666421-20150807085036

@Timothy130130: I think you make a few mistakes in your reasoning.

> The stats are horrible. They're not, though. CDR is awesome on virtually every support. AP is awesome on virtually every support (not just damage-dealers, but people like Thresh and Alistar too). Mana is awesome on virtually every support. Armour is awesome on virtually every support. And you're getting all of the above at >100% gold efficiency. You simply have no leg to stand on here.

> Enemies can play around the passive.

Certainly - that's one of the balancing factors. But you compare this to Gnar's passive, as if that's a fatal flaw; and yet, we see Gnar played all the time, from Bronze to LCS. So obviously it's not as simple as "just play around it".

> 50% crit is great for the ADC; 20% is bad for the support.

This is missing a few subtleties. Firstly, 50% crit on a support is not bad at all - most supports (all the ranged ones, certainly) will use AAs during trades or all-ins, and getting double damage on half your AAs really helps. (How many times have opponents gotten away from you on < 100 HP?) And 20% AP for an AP support is huge. And...

> I don't play AP supports.

Two problems here.

The first is this: if you think an item is meant for AP supports, and you don't play AP supports, why bitch about it? I don't see ADCs complaining that Deathcap sucks.

The second problem is that almost all supports scale off AP, and many (I'd say at least half?) have some AP in their build. On that note:

> It provides no utility.

On what planet does AP not boost Karma's shields? Or Soraka's heals?

> I don't want to be a mule, I want to be a playmaker.

One, that's selfish, because it implies your preference of identity is more important than choosing an optimal strategy. Two, you are seriously missing out here. I've been building this item on support Karma (9/0/21, flat AP + scaling AP + Mpen + health) along with Deathcap, Liandry's, and Morellonomicon. Between Deathcap and Zeke's, you get +62% AP. My damage output has consistently been on the same level as my team's actual carries, and I can shield people for days.

Point being: Zeke's is not only beneficial for the ADC. It helps you just as much.

And if you want to be a playmaker, use this thing in teamfights. Play around the stacks, time your engage, and use the active situationally, on whomever needs it. So you used it on your ADC, but he got blown up in the first second? Who cares! Switch it to Cass and watch her melt the enemy team with a 223% AP bonus.