Talk:Kayle/@comment-5877442-20140826233847/@comment-24082016-20140828215004

1. To clarify, BotRK doesn't give movement. it gives soft cc. It's a huge different, so plz dont confuse.

2.Yes, Full AP(old school burst kayle) Kayle does significantly less than it did at the start of season 4, but in lategame it still outdamages/outduels any champ if played correctly.

3. Getting Liandry's just because it "synergizes well" w/ Rylais is pitfall you shouldn't  fall into. That's like expecting Liandry's to play a significant&sufficient help you play the role of "tanky damage dealer". But even with Rylai's, the damage is lackluster. You may completely disagree, but first allow me to list a few setups you probably had in mind or considered w/ your venture to be a "tanky" Kayle(on SR) while including the Ry-Li combo.

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, mpen boots, wits

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, mpen boots, zhonyas

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, mpen boots, runaans

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, mpen boots, void

nashors,void,rylais,lyiandra, mpen boots, zhonyas

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, mpen boots, abysmal

nashors,void,rylais,lyiandra, mpen boots, abysmal

nashors,abysmal,rylais,lyiandra, mpen boots, wits

nashors,abysmal,rylais,lyiandra, mpen boots, runaans

nashors,zhonyas,rylais,lyiandra, mpen boots, wits

nashors,zhonyas,rylais,lyiandra, mpen boots, runaans

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, AS boots, wits

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, AS boots, zhonyas

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, AS boots, runaans

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, AS boots, void

nashors,void,rylais,lyiandra, AS boots, zhonyas

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, AS boots, abysmal

nashors,void,rylais,lyiandra, AS boots, abysmal

nashors,abysmal,rylais,lyiandra, AS  boots, wits

nashors,abysmal,rylais,lyiandra, AS boots, runaans

nashors,zhonyas,rylais,lyiandra, AS boots, wits

nashors,zhonyas,rylais,lyiandra, AS boots, runaans

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, MR boots, wits

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, MR boots, zhonyas

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, MR boots, runaans

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, MR boots, void

nashors,void,rylais,lyiandra, MR boots, zhonyas

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, MR boots, abysmal

nashors,void,rylais,lyiandra, MR boots, abysmal

nashors,abysmal,rylais,lyiandra, MR boots, wits

nashors,abysmal,rylais,lyiandra, MR boots, runaans

nashors,zhonyas,rylais,lyiandra, MR boots, wits

nashors,zhonyas,rylais,lyiandra, MR boots, runaans

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, ARMOR boots, wits

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, ARMOR boots, zhonyas

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, ARMOR boots, runaans

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, ARMOR boots, void

nashors,void,rylais,lyiandra, ARMOR boots, zhonyas

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, ARMOR boots, abysmal

nashors,void,rylais,lyiandra, ARMOR boots, abysmal

nashors,abysmal,rylais,lyiandra, ARMOR boots, wits

nashors,abysmal,rylais,lyiandra, ARMOR boots, runaans

nashors,zhonyas,rylais,lyiandra, ARMOR boots, wits

nashors,zhonyas,rylais,lyiandra, ARMOR boots, runaans

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, cdr boots, wits

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, cdr boots, zhonyas

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, cdr boots, runaans

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, cdr boots, void

nashors,void,rylais,lyiandra, cdr boots, zhonyas

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, cdr boots, abysmal

nashors,void,rylais,lyiandra, cdr boots, abysmal

nashors,abysmal,rylais,lyiandra, cdr boots, wits

nashors,abysmal,rylais,lyiandra, cdr boots, runaans

nashors,zhonyas,rylais,lyiandra, cdr boots, wits

nashors,zhonyas,rylais,lyiandra, cdr boots, runaans

-or maybe you arent even getting boots:

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, zypher, wits

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, zypher, zhonyas

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, zypher, runaans

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra,zypher, void

nashors,void,rylais,lyiandra,zypher, zhonyas

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, zypher, abysmal

nashors,void,rylais,lyiandra,zypher, abysmal

nashors,abysmal,rylais,lyiandra, zypher, wits

nashors,abysmal,rylais,lyiandra,zypher, runaans

nashors,zhonyas,rylais,lyiandra, zypher, wits

nashors,zhonyas,rylais,lyiandra, zypher, runaans

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, lich bane, wits

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, lich bane, zhonyas

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, lich bane, runaans

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, lich bane, void

nashors,void,rylais,lyiandra, lich bane, zhonyas

nashors,rabs,rylais,lyiandra, lich bane, abysmal

nashors,void,rylais,lyiandra, lich bane, abysmal

nashors,abysmal,rylais,lyiandra, lich bane, wits

nashors,abysmal,rylais,lyiandra, lich bane, runaans

nashors,zhonyas,rylais,lyiandra,lich bane, wits

nashors,zhonyas,rylais,lyiandra, lich bane, runaans

Or better yet, instead of having you check my quazi-finished permutations, let me just generalize my point.

Now, Rylai is 1 thing. It provides 400 health, a healthy 80ap, and added cc which you could say synergizes well with Kayle bc of her long lasting/relatively always up E(depending how you build) and adds a layer of utility/crowd-control to her.

On the otherhand, Liandry's which yes, tics each time you do magic damage(her Q and when E's active) yields some really subpar stats. The earlier the game is, the less damage those tics do(all champs have lower hp earlier on that later, therefore percent based damage based on current health will do less, obvi) and then it's contribution is just as lacking later on when there's more MR to hit through and fights can turn for the worse alot quicker than your tic tic can amount to anything significant. For games that don't last longer than midgame, you probably dont have to worry about getting more than 3 items. But you'll have a rough time dealing with any non-mediocre champ w/ roughly the same cash, built at least half decently, and not taking free hits like it's his/hers birthday.

Not to mention Liandry's does less damage the more hurt an enemy is(tics do 2-4% of enemies remaining hp per sec for 3 seconds in magic damage, not counting enemies MR). So where it's suppose to be "good" for dealing with tanks, All it does is slightly speed up the earlier harassing of the tank(getting 50AP and 15 mpen from somewhere else, or the alternative of MORE AP and/or MPEN) then and leaves you trying to muscle your way w/o it's "tic damage"(which becomes practically 0 on an enemy with "low health") for the most crucial part of dealing with a tank, which is expoding it's last bit of hp so it's no longer causing issues. You're damage is lackluster compared to alternatives. You call yourself "tanky" but that title is extremely situational. You've sacrificed a slot you could have used for a void staff, abysmal skeptor, lichbane, some DPS item, Rabadons, zhonyas, or whatever other item for damage or "tankiness" that would easily make a  sounder and mpre reliable impact. Just what are you accomplishing by going down that path?

Why not sacrifice "a little damage" for some tankiness?

There are at least 2 things that are not innate about a champ, but decides whether it becomes strong ingame(ignoring runes&masteries setups, and assuming worst case scenario opponents for that champ within reason.  e.g. a Tank Nasus that has been Q farming for 40mins undisturbed). One being how well the item's selected synergizes w/ that champs kit and strengths(specifically at the point of building and thereon). And the 2nd being whether or not there is a better option. Working w/ those 2 ideas in mind, you're more likely to create a setup that makes your champs qualities "shine". Ignore them. Does Kayle's Kit scream "stack armor and health on me" and i'll be a great tank like Alistar?

Why not go AD Kayle. Her kit utilizes AD "fine"?

That depends on your definition of fine. Just like how peoples idea of viable can drastically differ. Does the mere fact that champ's kit has a certain type of ratio(AD,AP,AS,MS,HEALTH,MANA,ARMOR,MR,Whatever) in at least 1 of his/her abiltities, make the focusing the pumping up of that stat render a viable build? Hmm, I can phrase less hypothetically. When it comes to Kayle, do you think the AD you managed to muster together is gonna render awesome damage from her abilities when they do magic damage which is countered by enemies MR as oppose to ARMOR? hmm, maybe. But lackluster none the less if compared to what an AP build would have done. THat's why the AD build is w/o a doubt dependent on your DPS+lifesteal, and should barely take into account your damage and heal your abiltites do. Now, I can go into why it's just so difficult to get going on AD kayle, which like any other DPS beast does well lategame, but many have finely summarized that up.

Now yes, there are some champs that can "get away with" buidings items that dont synergize well, champs w/ ridiculous base stats & scaling, base stats per skill lvl in their kit, cc, and/or have the ability to amplify their fighting abilities remain relevant. But sadly enough, kayle isn't 1 of those. As low as her ratios are, just about everything else about her is also mediocre(Ult being the exception). Don't get what I'm saying? Then try it with your friends. Kayle maxed lvl w/o items vs another champ(considered "viable" this season) maxed lvl w/o items.

At that point, you're "unknowingly" and inarguably trolling. How so? BC you've built a champ in a way that provides subpar at best results, while there are dozens of others with better synergy for your idea. Now,don't get me wrong. Trolling's fun, but don't call such builds viable when you win. Call it for what it is; a lucky win against an easy enough opponent.