Talk:Lissandra/@comment-9008617-20130503213021/@comment-9008617-20130506174542

"For every post you make, you highlight her targetable stun, AoE slow and AoE damage. Well guess what, Kennen has AoE damage as well which far surpasses Lissandra in base damage and AP ratio. And so Lissandra has her combo on a 48-80 sec CD while Kennen can get his at any time, anywhere without any hesitation on using resources."

My posts are in response to the issue I'm addressing which is Lissandra being CC heavy. Her targetable stun is to address how much easier it is for her to stun a champ for 1.5 seconds over the difficulty of Kennen using his passive to land that same stun but only for 1 second which you still fail to address... sigh.

Furthermore, I find it ironic that you write this whole post about Lissandra's mana sustain and yet make the claim that Kennen apparently doesn't have to worry about CD or managing energy seeing that max energy cannot be increased as easily as mana nor can energy regen be as easily increased as mana regen. It's almost like a Kennen pro like you didn't realize Kennen's ult has a base CD of 2 minutes. Weird huh?

"Spam that Q and go OOM. With that high mana cost and getting 1 free use of it, spamming it is not as simple as you think... unless you have infinite mana hacks!! HAXOR!!"

Base Lissandra starts with 210 max mana and gains 50 mana per level. Lissandra's Q costs a static 85 mana per use. That's 85/210 at Lv 1, 85/260 at Lv 2, 85/310 at Lv 3,... 85/1060 at Lv 18. Shuriken starts at 65 energy and drops down to 45 at Lv 5. Electrical Surge is a static 45 energy and Lightning Rush starts at 100 energy and drops down to 80 energy. However, at Lv 18 Kennen's max energy will still be 200. Basically at the early levels, one use of Shuriken or Electrical Surge drains Kennen of 25%+ of his energy each and Lightning Rush drains 50%... Granted both Lissandran and Kennen have mana/energy regenerative passives that rely on landing hits although Lissandra's will still regen mana every 18 seconds without landing a CC hit. The key here is that mana becomes less of an issue as mana champs gain levels so your argument is weak.

"Karthus's wall does no damage but its part of his kit... it allows hitting more Q's AND reduces MR so they hit more. Each and every champ I have said has a better slow, which is AoE and the only drawback is it has a higher CD (and their slows are better than the ult you so highly paise)"

That's if enemy champs actually walk through Karthus' wall. Point being, Lissandra's Q can be used more than just for the slow but also wave clearing and poking or just shotgunning the enemy team during teamfights. Karthus' wall is definitely a strong slow but that's pretty much it and at 11-18 second CD it's 4x to 5x less spammable than Lissandra's Q.

And no, each and every champ you've presented I've already deconstructed. I've given you numbers and facts and you've given me nothing. Not to mention, I've made a point that it's about the whole and not just the slow. For instance, the ult you keep underestimating doesn't just AoE slow the enemy team but also AoE damages and can stun for 1.5 seconds or Zhonya's for 1.5 seconds. It's almost like you want to compare Nunu's ult's slow to Karthus' slow but neglect to mention the ult's damage. Oh wait, you just did do that.

"If you have never played Kennen, then don't simply argue about it. Any Kennen would build 1 of 2 things, health to make effective use of the free stats he gets from his E (the things which makes him tankier if you didn't read) or just some more resistances."

I don't even see where this is coming from... but okay lets roll with it. Kennen gets additional armor and magic resistance from his E... hurrah? You're still a squishy literally running into enemy champs and you can't even AA while doing so. But go ahead and stack health and resistances since it doesn't change the actually mechanic. That was a really weird post on your part...

"I have compared her to the some of them, and she's in the best phrase I can remember at the moment "The jack of all trades but the master of none." And the only things which Riot might change about her is the base damage of her E, as being a utility spell doesn;t mean it should have a lot of damage."

You've compared her to Karthus' and Nasus' slows who you yourself deemed the "King of slows". There's definitely no shame in being the jack of all trades especially when she's got quite the amount of jack.

"Something made for teamfights is and always will be Wukong's passive dumbass. Explain which passive you are referring to before writing idiotic things. And the attackspeed things isn't thaaat great."

LOL what a retard. Ezreal's passive 50% aspd buff is definitely made for teamfights (i.e. land an ult on the enemy team) and you've got your aspd steroid. You compared that to Lissandra's 18 second free spellcast passive for teamfights? And now you're just trying too hard to save face by randomly bringing in Wukong's passive. What a tard.

"G_G I win."

You win at being bad. Really really bad...

I've repeatedly spanked you over and over. Now you're just throwing out random trivial information that's irrelevant, grabbing at straws, and you're just too damn afraid to actually address any of the facts and numbers I've said. And anyone who says a 50% attack speed steroid isn't that great on one of the best ranged ADCs in the game is just an idiot. Go back to playing against bots, you clearly have nothing worth contributing here.

@Ares: Yeah, my bad. Get tripped up when I have to compare one champ to ten champs in this thread and the same thing over at Quinn's page.