Talk:Shyvana/@comment-4834593-20130107153917/@comment-67.248.86.64-20130107213136

I'm not pretending to be an expert player or anything. These are just things that I've noticed while playing Shyv and counter jungling.

Counter jungling can be one the most exciting things that could put you ahead or behind. A high risk move that has high reward. One of the things about Shyv is that if you make a mistake and put yourself behind, it doesn't take much to get back on your feet. Other junglers, if they fail counter jungling, can't get back on their feet as easily as Shyv can. So, with this in mind, if there's an opportunity, go for it!

It also depends on who the enemy jungler is. In the beginning 6 lvls, Shyv works well against countering many junglers. The junglers Shyv does badly against are, imo, high burst dmg champions. This includes champs like Olaf, who can do high burst in those early lvls. Shyv, at first, doesn't have a lot of sustain, or defences, so if you counter these high burst champs early on, you will most likely fail. You could attempt to counter these high  burst dmg champs, but make sure you have flash, and know a good way out of their jungle in case things go south.

After lvl 6, and after some good defence items, Shyv can counter jungle these high burst dmg champs, but, cannot trade with them at all. This means you will have to play the 'subterfuge' game, and 'gank' them while they are in the middle of getting their blue or red. Timing comes into play here, knowing when their buffs are up, and simply going into their bush and seeing if they are engaged with their buffs. If they are currently taking their buff you can do one of two things. If their life bar is low enough, and their team is all in their lanes, you can attempt to get a kill. If they have high health, and their team is mia, then you can simply go for a buff steal. The player usually just estimates when they should use their smite. What you can do is look immediately how much dmg your smite does, and wait exactly for that moment, and steal it. This can be quite effective, as the enemy player will be temporarily confused as what just happened to their buff; sometimes even think that they got it.

Shyv can be quite effective at doing this when she has her ultimate. Because if, for instance, you steal thier buff, but one of the laning champs comes by, Shyv has a speed buff to get away, but if that's not enough, then ult over a wall to escape. When you are in dragon form, you gain a really good amountt of defensive stats, making you extremely hard to take down.

The best you can get out of counter jungling, lets say, against an Amumu. You start at your blue, and then go up to their Red, and you wait in their bush for Amumu to come along. You catch him at his red, wait until he's at less than half health, and you smite steal the red. Then you initiate with your w, and the player is confused and probably starts running away, or is really angry and begins attacking you. In this case you will kill Amumu, and the laning champ comes to help, but you Flash over the wall and W away. Most of the time, however, at these early lvls, you might not secure the kill on their jungler. But it's still a really good thing to just wait in that bush and smite steal.

If the above scenario was against a burst dmg champ, then it's a lot riskier. Burst dmg junglers are, at the moment, really popular. Olaf, Shaco, and others. It's all about knowing which buff the enemy champ is starting out at. If it's Amumu, they will be starting at their blue, if it's Olaf, it's probably blue, but it could be red, depending on if they want a lvl 2 gank. Lvl 2 ganks, however, are being phased out by Riot. They are systematically nerfing all jungling champs that excell at lvl 2 ganks. This will allow Shyv to become a much more picked jungler in the near future.

Keep in mind that Shyv is considering a slightly Op counter jungler because she has two great escape moves, a speed buff and a great defense stats boost fly-over-the-wall ult. Ultilizing and knowing when to use these two escape moves will allow you to hit-and-run their jungle, leaving them without their buffs, for most of the game.

Shyv, as the game progresses, just gets better and better at doing this. But just be very careful at those early lvls against burst dmg champs, as she is quite squishy and doesn't trade well.