Talk:Nidalee/@comment-4881935-20131203014040/@comment-5266525-20131204180952

Please don't put words in my mouth by chiding me for QQ'ing about something I never said once was OP.

May I just ask where you got Riot's definition of 'toxic' from? Was it explicitly stated by a Rioter at some point and I've forgotten about it or is it inferred from just reading their responses?

"Shaw, if you define toxic influence by that way, everything in the game is toxic by some small degree. Every ability is an annoyance at some slight degree because they aren't positive."

Perhaps I shouldn't have quoted 'to play against'. :P

Toxic, so far as I can tell, simply means 'creates a negative experience through pissing off a victim more than it enthralls a user'. Or, anti-fun exceeds fun, to quote Zileas.

Something lacking counterplay will do that, but that's not the only cause. I've read responses by a Rioter (either Morello or Xypherous on penetration changes) about how it's toxic for assassins to be overwhelming in laning and fall off hard later - I don't think that's really got anything to do with counterplay but it's still toxic in their own words.

I don't think you'd need to use my definition to still conclude that Nidalee's toxic overall anyway, though, since the optimal way to play her inherently means she doesn't have counterplay.