Talk:Vayne/@comment-93.138.38.4-20110517121126/@comment-174.253.150.1-20110519000211

On the contrary Sircal87, the fact that Eve has a 2 second stun and the same burst capability has EVERYTHING to do with it. Game balance exists only within itself. Therefore we can only compare Vayne's abilities to already existing ones in the game, in order to find out how much better or worse it is. So here it comes..

Regardless of the fact that her base damage may be high on Condemn, the rest of her abilities are mediocre at best. Tumble is not the end-all-beat-all like people claim it is. People act like they're getting 1 shotted by it when Vayne has a Sheen. Has everyone forgotten about Nasus?.. Nasus can farm +300 damage on his Q no problem if they know what they're doing. Combine that with a Trinity Force and your blowing Tumble's damage out of the water, with virtually the same cooldown and an added lifesteal.

1. Night Hunter - 40 Movespeed when moving towards enemy champions, this isn't that great. MF's passive provides up to 70 movement speed, so this is nothing new or impressive.

2. Tumble - Deals less damage than a crit, does medium damage compared to other abilities in the game, provides a short dash that ultimately isn't that useful, except for in a chase. Don't say it gives her an amazing kite ability, because it doesn't. Vayne loses about as much time as she gains casting Tumble by turning around to AA and reset the CD. Plus once you have her on the chase she's super slow without her passive.

3. Condemn - Yes, it can deal potentially high damage. Yes, it can potentially stun the target. However, this is still an overall poor ability in the longhaul. It has less range than her AA, putting you in more danger if there is any more than 1 person around. The knock-back is only good as an escape if you can't get the stun. Even if she does get the stun, she often knocks you farther away than wanted, so she won't be able to take advantage of her stun. In my opinion, base damage on Condemn considered, a TF's gold card gives him full reign to AA the entire 2 second (unconditional) duration, is JUST as good of an escape mechanism on a lower CD, and an even better offensive mechanism because he can better utilize the stun. Similarily, compare this to MF's Make it Rain, which is an awesome farming tool (let's a good MF rack 200-300 minion kills a game no problem if it lasts) and has the ability to let her CHASE AND ESCAPE enemies. In the case that she's using it to do either, she can proc the damage and slow from well outside of her AA range. Although it isn't a stun, it's just as useful to MF as Vayne's Condemn, if not more.

4. Silver Bolts - This is one of yet ANOTHER conditional ability that Vayne has. During laning (and well into the ganking) phase this is nothing more than a last-hitting tool as well as a SLIGHT boost to your damage. Damage you are often forced to overcommit and extend if you want to receive it in the laning phase. No smart player is just going to stand around and let you rack up 3 Silver Bolts over, and over, and over again. Next discussing the damage, it's useless to Vayne level's 1-12/15 (Depending on how the enemy team builds). I've done extensive math and theory comparing this to already existing true damage prior to this post, so just cite those. The primary argument in short is that Olaf's Reckless Swing deals way more damage on a more consistent basis for the entire early-mid/late game. Even still late game depending on how much HP the enemy has. Don't argue that it deals damage to Olaf as well, because anybody that has actually played olaf knows that this damage is negligible when he has lifesteal and spellvamp combined with his passive attack speed.

5. Final Hour - This is steroid buff with a given utility of a minor stealth. It's ultimate not that great compared to any other ranged DPS ultimate. Ashe's ultimate is argueably the best of the ranged AD's ultimate. It allows her to initiate, nuke, snipe from across the map, and/or any number of useful other things that Vayne's ultimate just can't compete with.

So let's review..

Strut > Night Hunter like 100% of the time. Siphoning Strike > Tumble like 100% of the time. Reckless Swing > Silver Bolts, except in the case of tanks (also, conditional) (Condemn > Kittens, but still) < Gold Card, Make It Rain, and most other ranged AD utility (also, conditional stun) Final Hour < Ashe's Ult, as well as most other ranged AD ultimates.