Talk:Nidalee/@comment-186.136.186.166-20120925182742/@comment-186.136.186.166-20120926013743

OP here.

Yes I know im killing the current Nidalee, the way I see nid she has something similar to master yi, they both compensate their lack of power on certain aspects with another aspect. Nidalee is a extremly fast champion, she has pounce, free MS from passive and free MS from cougar form, but her mobility comes with a higher price. Support nidalee doesnt go beyond 1400 ELO, solo top Nid can reach 1800 ELO and mid Nidalee is awful even on unranked games. I dont like talking about ELO /Tournaments because it sets a weird issue, if we actually talk about "viable" not all champions are going to reach certain elos... and I think the "tournament viability" is overated.

In the case of Nidalee, she is outclassed almost in any lane at the moment, the only lane she can actually perform correctly is top lane, and 90% of the times, by going AD.

Going AD already means your Q on human form, your E eventually, and your E in cougar form, they all go to waste mid-late game. So basically, AD nidalee ends up being a really fast champion that can go from melee to ranged. All of her other abilties end up being an excuse for that, being a champion that can go from melee to ranged. Ive done AD nid top several times, but thats the true, thats the only real thing she can offer, mobility and kitting.

Traps are there only to provide vision and map awareness, the % MR and Armor reduction is not something you can really make use of: The traps are to small, they take time to sprung and enemies are not going to stay there doing nothing, zoning bushes early game is the only time you can make use of the %MRarmor reduction.

Spears are useless

The heal is good early game, lategame it doesnt exist and the AS buff stops being good enough.

In her cougar form her E is raw magic damage, nothing else, doesnt scale. It has a good base damage to clear a couple of minions, but thats it.

Q is decent now she has 125 melee range. It doesnt do much if they are not low health but thats it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWoqkStEYnc

A random example of someone playing AD nidalee top. The same way heimendinger's abilty to freeze a lane was nerfed because it was antifun, I think Nidalee shouldnt have that movement speed, she can be a really mobile champion, but a pounce that can through walls every 3,5 seconds, and works with CDR? Free MS from cougar form and passive? Gragas is called a mobile champion because he can go through walls every 7 seconds. Ezreal has a flash every 19 / 17 / 15 / 13 / 11 that gets reset everytime he hits his Q, but it will never go down to 3,5 and it has a mana cost. I think that increasing the cooldown on pounce is something that must be done if they ever remake/ change nidalee, as it would be unfair (it is at the moment). Nidalee is maybe the only champion I feel safe with at almost any given time, I know I can just pounce away through a wall, use the bushes and get away, but it is a little unfair for other champions, and doesnt help your team eighter, because you dont give mobility / utility to nobody else but you.

Going AP / Support is the real problem, AD can work, subpar, but can work.

In the case of support Nidalee, she like Karma, lacks 0cs abilties. Karma has a MS boost, a shield and a heal, but both the shield and the heal are ... well, just that, a raw shield and a raw heal, no bonus AD like janna or free Armor and MR like soraka. She has no auras, she has nothing that doesnt work with AP except for a trap, and the AS from her heal. Sorakas heal is

Heal: 70 / 140 / 210 / 280 / 350 (+0.45 per ability power)

and Nidalee's is

Heal: 50 / 85 / 120 / 155 / 190 (+0.7 per ability power)

Nidalee can heal for more, but she needs AP, if she doesnt get AP (CS), she will fall behind, also her heal provides AS, thats really good when trading pokes, but it doesnt work with the concept of the heal itself. A heal is used because you are getting damaged, thats THE MAIN use of the heal. Nidalee has a offensive-defensive heal, defensive because is a heal, offensive because of the AS, that has a 50%-50% posibility of succes overall: If you are trading pokes, sorakas heal will help, same with nidalee's. If you are running away because you got ganked, sorakas heal will healp, but nidalee will only help a little, as you get no MR or Armor.

The traps are good early game, but they are no replace for wards, and once you got a ward, why would you use your traps? The Armor / MR debuff is cool... but is hard to apply, and once again, is an offensive spell, it wont do almost no damage and it has almost no utility unless you attack, if you are losing trades, all you can do is watch as the enemy alistar goes /L.

Your cougar form when going support is ...well all you can do is tank damage, and if you want someone to tank damage, why didnt you pick Alistar / Leona / Taric ?

By changing the way you upgrade your abilities, I think Nidalee could get a new tactic:

Do I want to provide free Arm /Mr... get more tanky? Or do I want to upgrade my W, to debuff them even more?

Some of the things I did are obviously broken. Her heal giving you vision of the unit you are attacking for 5 seconds? 40% Slow every 6 seconds with no mana cost? Free armor and MR with her ultimate? Yes, the numbers are not right, but I do think her mobility is broken, I do think her damage can be retarded with her Q if she goes AP and I do think she is a rather umbalanced champion, wtih a lot of unreliable damage and mobility, you can abuse her power, but against a well coordinated team you have no chance, she doesnt have much sinergy on her kit, while her Human form could be maybe a caster-support, her cougar form doesnt fit into this description and viceversa, with her cougar form being a mobile form of dps, her human form has almost no dps, its pure burst and pretty cheap supporting abilities.